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cecil30-30

cecil30-30

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I think it was EWC who said blackhorn 209 is a smokeless powder.I was gonna pick some up and start working on a new longer range load for my ML,but after saying it is a smokeless powder and is gonna have higher pressure,its got me worried. Anyone care to explain/comment on this subject?
 
Its a form of smokeless powder thats been engineered to be shot safely from basically any inline muzzleloader or even sidelock with the seated breech plug.
 
I tend to agree that it is smokeless powder because of its base ingredient. I would like to know, however, has it been engineered to produce any smoke at all to give it a black powder "feel"? Also, what do you mean by a seated breech? I'm not sure about using it in your average sidelock as I understand it takes a 209 primer to set it off reliably.
FrontierGander said:
Its a form of smokeless powder thats been engineered to be shot safely from basically any inline muzzleloader or even sidelock with the seated breech plug.
Click to expand...
 
It does smoke some, but no where near Pyrodex or even 777. I think they just added something to make it smoke a bit. It is made up of hollow cylindrical sections. Looks like smokeless to me. It's not that the pressure is higher, it's that the pressure curve is much steeper. It reaches it's pressure spike much faster than the others.
 
FULLDRAWXX75 said:
Here is the direct ling to the Buckhorn 209 brochure, scroll down to page 3 and read the side bar paragraphs(especially the very bottom "highlighted" sentance)

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

FDXX75
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can't see it being used in a side lock even with a 209 adaptor. Your not supposed to use it in open breech designs either, but many are with great success. I'm still having a blowback problem with my Knight LK-93, but I think I can work through it. I'm for being safe, but if you call a manufacturer and ask them about using reloads in their rifles they will tell you they don't reccommend it. Safety is one thing, but if we followed every manufacturers advice to the letter, we would all be wearing full-body condoms to leave the house. Just be smart about it, and not get in a hurry. That reminds me, I can't use my riding mower in my yard, because the ground is not a "flat level surface". :crazy:
 
it is not going to blow you up any more than tripple 7, i have shot through 3 cans in two years i love the stuff,stick with the manufactures guidelines on load limits and you will be fine.i have shot 30 rounds through my knight in one day with out cleaning and the last load went in as easy as the first and accuracy never suffered from build up like the others do.
 
ratsnakeboogy said:
FULLDRAWXX75 said:
Here is the direct ling to the Buckhorn 209 brochure, scroll down to page 3 and read the side bar paragraphs(especially the very bottom "highlighted" sentance)

http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

FDXX75
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can't see it being used in a side lock even with a 209 adaptor. Your not supposed to use it in open breech designs either, but many are with great success. I'm still having a blowback problem with my Knight LK-93, but I think I can work through it. I'm for being safe, but if you call a manufacturer and ask them about using reloads in their rifles they will tell you they don't reccommend it. Safety is one thing, but if we followed every manufacturers advice to the letter, we would all be wearing full-body condoms to leave the house. Just be smart about it, and not get in a hurry. That reminds me, I can't use my riding mower in my yard, because the ground is not a "flat level surface". :crazy:
Click to expand...

Yep, you are correct on several levels. Personally, I am not into holding a time bomb up next to my head and lighting the wick...........or anyones elses head for that matter.

Best of luck on your quest

FDXX75
 
all the subs say smokeless to get around the hazardous shipping. black powder is classified as an explosive. its a word game.

having said that, it would be more accurate to say that blackhorn 209 is nitrocellulose based and according to spectragraph, it mimics hodgdons trail boss. heres a report from testing:
"Haag's findings were that Blackhorn 209, while basically nitrocellulose contained inclusions of potassium nitrite and sulphur, which may create potassium sulphate, possibly sulphur trioxide, or dioxide combining with water in the air form sulfuric acid. He concluded that there is potassium nitrite and elemental sulphur embedded in what is basically a nitrocellulose product"

looking at that statement, it seems its a combo of nitro and blackpowder compounds. makes me wonder really how non-corrosive this powder is.
 
[/quote]

Yep, you are correct on several levels. Personally, I am not into holding a time bomb up next to my head and lighting the wick...........or anyones elses head for that matter.

Best of luck on your quest

FDXX75 [/quote]

The BH209 pressure wave in comparison to 777 is much faster, but nowhere near failure levels in Knight rifles even DOUBLE dosed. I see what your saying, but [color:#000099]time bomb it is not[/color]. The warning about open breech designs and BH209 is for the blow-back issue, and while there is a danger to the eyes, as long as the primer is contained in a Red Plastic Jacket the danger is minimal. This blowback can be overcome according to many, I haven't had a chance yet to try the advice I've been given. I am the only person shooting the rifle, I am using safety precautions and In my opinion anyway; I'm not stupid. A simple change of sabot cured the bolt recocking issue, and further tweaking with load and pimer should reduce or elimanate blow-back. I'm not a "hey bubba, watch this" guy, I am a problem solver. And I work at solving them safely.
 
Wobblyshot1 said:
I tend to agree that it is smokeless powder because of its base ingredient. I would like to know, however, has it been engineered to produce any smoke at all to give it a black powder "feel"? Also, what do you mean by a seated breech? I'm not sure about using it in your average sidelock as I understand it takes a 209 primer to set it off reliably.
FrontierGander said:
Its a form of smokeless powder thats been engineered to be shot safely from basically any inline muzzleloader or even sidelock with the seated breech plug.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

OOps that should have been " sealed breech plug"
Correct plug on the Right. Incorrect plug on the left.
100_9248.jpg

Another deal, do NOT use it in Plunger style muzzle loaders. Bolt actions it can be used in if the Plug is the correct style "Slotted breech plugs are a no no"


One other deal thats important to do is clean your plugs flash channel out with a drill bit every few shots. I prefer to do mine every shot to keep pressures consistent and accurate. It seems to offer me the best accuracy by doing that.

A lot of carbon build up after only 3 shots with BH209 and Winchester W209 primers.
000_1886.jpg


You can use BH209 in a sidelock if you get the 209 primer adapter. I did an experiment that was cleared and given the OK by Western Powders.

Using my CVA Hawken .50 i used a 5 grain booster charge of jim shockeys gold 3f, put that down the bore first and shifted it into the bolster, followed up by 80gr blackhorn209 and a 295gr powerbelt. Heres the video of it printing at 75 yards,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5lmjSHJNxk

I plan on switching my sidelocks over to the 209 adapter. You just cant beat BH209 IMO.
 

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