Barrel Torque

[Hunter 257W]

For those who have changed out barrels, how do you know when you have it tight enough. I've got a Model 98 Mauser that I want to put a barrel on an am looking for some feel as to how much torque to use. Maybe most people just go with "Good and tight"?? I've worked on cars enough that I don't feel a need to use a torque wrench on things such as brake calipers or such so maybe just a good hard pull is enough? What about it??

I have some lead sheets to use to protect the barrel and could probably get away with (don't laugh now) using a big pipe wrench with the lead wrapped around the barrel. No way to measure torque going that way though. IF I do use the pipe wrench, It's just an old military barrel I got from Sportsman's Guide so even if the wrench slips a little I could care less. I'm looking to end up with an offhand practice rifle for shooting mid-pressure loads with cast bullets.

 

[mr.big]

I use a bbl vice and a rear entry action wrench,,I use anti-sieze like you would on spark plugs and just tighten them up pretty snug,,I dont have a torque wrench but if guessing would say something like 40-50 ft/lbs,,

with a right hand twist it should be trying to tighten itself ever shot anyway,,,if you plan on taking it back off use some type anti-sieze,,like screwin choke or muzzle loader lube,,

 

[Hunter 257W]

OK, 40-50 ft-lbs sounds like about the range I was thinking. I never put anything together without anti-sieze. That stuff is a life saver. You are right that a Right hand twist will be trying to tighten itself anyhow. This should be an interesting project since I found a Lee bullet mold that was a limited run bullet designed for original Mauser chambers.

 

[smalljawbasser]

you are using a go/no-go gauge, right? don't want to to be captain obvious, but i'd hate to see somebody get hurt because i didn't ask.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I was hesitant to mention my method of checking headspace because it could get somebody in trouble who doesn't understand how to do it or exactly what you are measuring when you check headspace. This is what I've done in the past. I bought a barreled Model 98 action several years back that had never been tested as a complete rifle - i.e. the headspace hadn't been verified or at least I couldn't prove that it had. Being a typical cheap engineer, I didn't want to pay for gauges so I just cut some "washers" from a coke can to use as shims to do my own measurement. Coke (and all soft drink) cans are .004 thick and surprisingly consistent - plenty good enough for this at least. I set up my sizing die to just barely full length size some cases, then tried to chamber a case with the shims between the bolt face and cartridge head. I don't recall where I got the dimension from - probably some gunsmithing book - but Max allowable headspace for the 270 was supposed to allow up to .012 "slop" for the cartridge to move for and aft with the bolt closed. So with that in mind, I had to insure that no more than 3 shims would fit and if 3 fit, they had better be tight. Luckily my chamber was tight with 2 shim and there was no way to close the bolt with 3. In spite of doing this, I still test fired the 1st several rounds with the rifle strapped to a heavy weight and fired remotely with a string. After examining the cases carefully there was no stretching in the web area at all so that was confirmation of the shim measurements validity. I don't recommend this to anybody else unless they truly understand exactly what I'm talking about and are meticulous about carrying it out.

Note: It's a lot easier for the Mauser compared to a lot of actions because the big extractor will hold the case and shims in place while you put the bolt back in.

 

[mr.big]

a no go gauge is only 4 thousandths longer than a go gauge,,I think my smith keeps headspace to less than half that,,12 thousandths seems like way too much to be safe,,

 

[jlanecr500]

To be honest, I set my headspace with a new piece of brass that I run thru my full form die to normalize it. I have used go/nogo guages but headspace ends up on the loose side with them. On a used rifle, I put a piece of masking tape on the rear of the cartridge. If it either has increased bolt resistance when chambering or does not chamber at all, I call it OK.

 

[Deer Assassin]

2 grunts

 

[Hunter 257W]

Thanks for all the replies. I found this discussion on headspace which also gives .012 as a Max allowable:

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/headspa ... space.html

Mr. Big, I'm sure your rifles are built much "tighter" than that but you have to admit that your rifles aren't exactly normal. A standard factory production rifle can't be held to .002 and would likely cause problems with accepting all ammo if they did. I agree that I'd prefer not to push all the way out to .012. My rifle was something a bit over .008 and experience with loading for the rifle demonstrates that it's acceptable because I get good case life with my reloads. I did adjust the sizer to size minimally - i.e. didn't screw the die down against the shell holder as the instructions say to do.

Jlanecr500, thanks for the tip on how you do the job. It's always educational to hear others experiences and thoughts.

DA, I understand exactly what you are saying there! I've used that method on a lot of stuff.

 

[280longshot]

Thanks for all the replies. I found this discussion on headspace which also gives .012 as a Max allowable:

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/headspa ... space.html

Mr. Big, I'm sure your rifles are built much "tighter" than that but you have to admit that your rifles aren't exactly normal. A standard factory production rifle can't be held to .002 and would likely cause problems with accepting all ammo if they did. I agree that I'd prefer not to push all the way out to .012. My rifle was something a bit over .008 and experience with loading for the rifle demonstrates that it's acceptable because I get good case life with my reloads. I did adjust the sizer to size minimally - i.e. didn't screw the die down against the shell holder as the instructions say to do.

Jlanecr500, thanks for the tip on how you do the job. It's always educational to hear others experiences and thoughts.

DA, I understand exactly what you are saying there! I've used that method on a lot of stuff.

Isn't the go gage dimension a standard for all manufactures of ammunition?
Meaning any ammunition will chamber if headspace is set with the go gage?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[mr.big]

I stand corrected,,I thought if the no-go chambered it was too long,,but according to this article it might be to long and might not,,
but for my use I want it to close on the go and not even start to close on the no go,,

GO: Corresponds to the minimum chamber dimensions. If a rifle closes on a GO gage, the chamber will accept ammunition that is made to SAAMI's maximum specifications. The GO gage is essential for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight, accurate and safe chamber that will accept SAAMI maximum ammo. Although the GO gage is necessary for a gunsmith or armorer, it usually has fewer applications for the collector or surplus firearms purchaser.
NO-GO: Corresponds to the maximum headspace Forster recommends for gunsmiths chambering new, bolt action rifles. This is NOT a SAAMI-maximum measurement. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gage, it may still be within SAAMI specifications or it may have excessive headspace. To determine if there is excessive headspace, the chamber should then be checked with a FIELD gage. The NO-GO gage is a valuable tool for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight and accurate chamber.
FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gage, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gages are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.

 

[280longshot]

I stand corrected,,I thought if the no-go chambered it was too long,,but according to this article it might be to long and might not,,
but for my use I want it to close on the go and not even start to close on the no go,,

GO: Corresponds to the minimum chamber dimensions. If a rifle closes on a GO gage, the chamber will accept ammunition that is made to SAAMI's maximum specifications. The GO gage is essential for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight, accurate and safe chamber that will accept SAAMI maximum ammo. Although the GO gage is necessary for a gunsmith or armorer, it usually has fewer applications for the collector or surplus firearms purchaser.
NO-GO: Corresponds to the maximum headspace Forster recommends for gunsmiths chambering new, bolt action rifles. This is NOT a SAAMI-maximum measurement. If a rifle closes on a NO-GO gage, it may still be within SAAMI specifications or it may have excessive headspace. To determine if there is excessive headspace, the chamber should then be checked with a FIELD gage. The NO-GO gage is a valuable tool for checking a newly-reamed chamber in order to ensure a tight and accurate chamber.
FIELD: Corresponds to the longest safe headspace. If a rifle closes on a FIELD gage, its chamber is dangerously close to, or longer than, SAAMI's specified maximum chamber size. If chamber headspace is excessive, the gun should be taken out of service until it has been inspected and repaired by a competent gunsmith. FIELD gages are slightly shorter than the SAAMI maximum in order to give a small safety margin.

I've read this before....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[smalljawbasser]

good deal, i know there are lots of different ways to headspace, and i was almost positive from reading some of your other posts you would be well aware. just wanted to make sure i threw it out there just in case!

 

[Andy S.]

DA, I understand exactly what you are saying there! I've used that method on a lot of stuff.

:tu:

 

[DaveB]

2 grunts

Have to tell ya, my Wife will come up to where ever I am and ask me to please stop grunting. One afternoon me and the twins were installing a new garbage disposal. My Son was supposed to hold it in place and he did, for 1/1000th of a second and then my arm/shoulder took the hit and I went 'umphhhh'. Wife comes up and says no grunting no pigs live here. Wife leaves. One twin waits then grunts, probably 80 pound boar grunt. Boy helping me immediately grunts a 200 pound boar grunt. And they take off, each one trying to out-grunt the other. Wife brings in an aerosol can of Glade and the boys depart forthwith. Rest of the day they would be out of sight and let out a loud grunt, hysterical. Wife took their pillows and sprayed them with Glade.

sorry to steal your thread

 

[jlanecr500]

This is a good read... http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1255 ... hem-Part-I