Average QDM Deer ? (long post - sorry)

[tellico4x4]

While looking at our clubs log book numbers, I got to wondering what does an "average QDM TN deer" really look like, and how do we stack up against others that keep records?

Club was established in 2002, but did not keep very good records for the first 3 years. Info & data below comes from 2005-2013 seasons (9 yrs).

We have 15 members, but with spouses & youth that hunt, total hunters can be 20-25 in any given year. Most weekend days probably have 7-10 people actually in woods.

We have 3300 acres of timber company land with 35 food plots. Most plots have pretty good clover, so deer have decent food at least 10 months out of year. Land is a mixture of pine plantation (lots of sanctuaries)of various age, cutover & fairly large hardwood hollows that have very good year round flowing creeks in them.

We use a point & width antler restriction to manage bucks. I know that this will probably get some comments, but it works for us. Our hunters range from 6 yrs old to 83, with a wide range of deer hunting experience. Several members are really looking for big deer and hold out for 4+ year olds on a regular basis. Others are tickled to kill one that meets our minimum requirement. Our restrictions are 8 points & 15" outside minimum. Regardless of experience level, anyone should be able to count to 8, and see if antlers are wider than the bucks ears. While we may give up a top end 2.5 yr old every now & then, we feel that this probably protects 75-80% of the 2 year old bucks.

Here's our detailed info:

2013 Bucks:
There were 17 bucks killed which included: 2 spikes, 3 seven points, 8 eight points, 2 nine points & 2 ten points. Two $100 fines collected for two of the 7 points. The other 7 point and the two spikes were hunters first deer, which is in accordance of club rules.

Most points � 10 (2 killed)
Widest Inside Spread � 19.25�
Longest Main Beams � 22�
Heaviest Live Weight � 207 lbs.
Average Points (spikes not included) � 8
Average Width Inside � 15�
Average Main Beam Length � 18�
Average Live Weight (spikes not included) � 178 lbs.

2013 Does:
There were 31 does killed & recovered.
Heaviest Live Weight � 138 lbs. (two of these)
Average Live Weight � 107 lbs.

Since 2005, we have killed 87 bucks, 183 does & 16 button bucks. Based on all data for the past 9 seasons, below is what we can expect in an average year:

Bucks

10 bucks killed
8 point average
15� inside spread
18� main beams
170 lbs. live weight


Out of the 10 bucks, the best buck will be a:

10 point
19� inside spread
22� main beams
202 lbs. live weight

Does

20 does killed
112 lbs. average live weight
134 lbs. heaviest

Button Bucks

1.7 average killed per year
81 lbs. average live weight

 

[Diehard Hunter]

Where is your age data?

 

[tellico4x4]

In the past no-one (including me) has taken the initive to learn how to properly do it with jaw bones. We do have 1 of the younger members that is in process. Hopefully, he'll become proficient enough before long for us to start pulling all of them and record. Of course,he's in college now and barley has time to squeeze time in for hunting...We run a lot of cameras year round, and have been fortunate to be able to watch a lot of our bucks grow from year to year. At least the ones that are easily identifiable. Properly aging them though is something that we are definately lacking in.

We do note in log book if we think a buck is 1-1/2, 2-1/2 or 3+. When we start getting beyond 3 years old, it get's pretty subjective, which is why I didn't include in above info.

 

[CAW]

I applaud you on your efforts with your data, but you are missing one KEY component.

I was in a QDM club for 10 years before the property was sold to a private investor who chose to non renew our lease. We ALWAYS sent the jawbones off for aging. Not turning a jawbone in was just about the biggest mistake a member could make. Why? Because we knew that without accurate and complete data on age, it was very difficult to know where we stood regarding our overall program. We also took weight data (before gutting), lactation data and filled out observation cards every time we hunted. Data, data, data. Sometimes it was a pain in the butt, especially when you were in a hurry to get home, but we knew how important it was to take the time to get it right.

This club was in South Alabama and was started back in the early 80's. 6500 acres of pines and hardwoods with only 18 members. Some of the original members were Toxey Haas and the founding family of Summit tree stands. I won't bore you with what we killed, but you would have a very difficult time finding a better place to hunt in the state of Alabama and I firmly believe it was due to the way it was managed - age data being a big part of that.

 

[BSK]

tellico4x4,

Glad to see your group is collecting data, and actually looking at the data. You wouldn't believe how few clubs/groups actually look at the data they collect. However, as others have pointed out, age data is critical. So much difference exists between buck body/antler size by age-class across the whitetail's range--even across TN--that you could have hunters in one region killing 100-class bucks that are all mature versus hunters in a different region killing 100-class bucks that are all 2 1/2. That's an apples-to-oranges level of comparison.

Although, to be honest, age is fairly meaningless if the hunters aren't focused on it as a "harvest limiter" or goal. If killing "good" bucks is the goal, the only important question is, "Are the hunters happy with the quality of bucks they are killing?" If the answer is "Yes," then your data and management are perfectly adequate for the hunters' goals.

 

[tellico4x4]

Went back & looked at the log sheets, and we started recording age's based on the hunters judgement in 2008. We use UT's data sheet, so we have always recorded if a doe was lactating or not. Have no clue how to interpet that...

Our youth & spouses first two bucks do not have to meet our standard. The first buck that they kill can be any size as long as it meets TWRA's rules. The second one has to at least be a 6 point. After that, they fall in with everyone else. Their numbers are included in the info below:

Since 2008, we have killed 75 bucks. Of that number 10 have been 1.5 yrs old (13%); 19 have been 2.5 yrs old (25%)& 46 have been 3.5+ (61%).

 

[BSK]

Since 2008, we have killed 75 bucks. Of that number 10 have been 1.5 yrs old (13%); 19 have been 2.5 yrs old (25%)& 46 have been 3.5+ (61%).

Those are awesome numbers tellico4x4.

On my place, rules are very minimal. Other than a person's first buck, all bucks simply have to be older than yearlings. Even then, we've had a few mistakes (8-point yearlings).

As a comparison, over the last three years, our male harvest has averaged--and I calculate our harvest density per square mile, so that it can be compared to other locations:

Button bucks: 0 per sq mi
Yearlings: 1.3 per sq mi
2 1/2s: 2.2 per sq mi
3 1/2s: 1.7 per sq mi
4 1/2+: 0.4 per sq mi

For a total average harvest of 5.6 males per square mile per year.

As a comparison tellico4x4, your 3,300 acre property is 5.2 square miles, and the male harvest on my place expanded to your sized property would equal 29 males killed per year.

 

[tellico4x4]

Those are awesome numbers tellico4x4.

Good to know that we are doing some things right.

Matter of fact, a lot of our success is due to you and many others here on TN Deer. I actually was introduced to this forum by your father-in-law. I was on my way lion hunting out west and he & I were on the same shuttle bus at N'ville airport. I had my bow case with me and he & I struck up a conversation. The forum was just getting off the ground, and happen to conincide with my interest of improving our lease. Info gathered here helped to put us on the fast track to achieving & even exceeding our goals. Thank you!