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SilverFox

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Rocky Top TN/Devil's Woodyard SC
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http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/dec/1 ... -push-for/

State legislators pushing the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency to open most of the state's waters to commercial fishing need to keep two numbers in mind: 262 and 871,000.

Two-hundred-and-sixty-two is the number of licensed commercial fishermen in Tennessee. Of those 262, roughly 50 of them are in the business full-time.

The other number, 871,000, is how many sport fishermen there are in Tennessee. Many of them aren't going to be very happy when they find out what the commercial fishermen, backed by the state legislature, are wanting.

In June, a bill backed by Rep. Frank Nicely passed through the General Assembly that established a Commercial Fishery Advisory Council to make recommendations to the TWRA that would, ostensibly, improve their industry. As part of the bill, all of the waters in Tennessee are to be evaluated to see how they would be impacted by commercial fishing.

That brings us to another number: $741,850.

That's how much the TWRA is going to have to spend to study all of the waters in Tennessee for commercial fishing. And the legislators who passed the bill are OK with the nearly three-quarter-of-a-million-dollar tab being picked up by the sport fishermen.

The Commercial Fishing Advisory Council held its first meeting in August and the recommendations it made to TWRA include doing away with the 34-inch size restriction on catfish, opening up several East Tennessee lakes � including Norris and Melton Hill � to commercial fishing for paddlefish, allow commercial fishermen to use nets with a smaller mesh size and allow commercial fishing helpers to run gear without the commercial fishing license holder being present.

In other words, the CFAC and its political backers would like to take most of the commercial fishing regulations in Tennessee and stand them on their head because, they say, it would create jobs, bring more money into the state, etc.

That brings us to even more numbers: $700,803,079 and $1,200,000,000. According to the American Sportfishing Association, that's the economic impact of sport fishing in Tennessee every year. There's more than $700 million in retail merchandise bought every year, which has an economic impact of $1.2 billion and creates 12,344 jobs.

If the CFAC get their way, some of that could be in jeopardy.

Take Melton Hill, for example.

When the Tennessee Wildlife Federation rolled into town last Tuesday to have meeting with its Camouflage and Casting Coalition members about commercial fishing and other issues, representatives from the National Wild Turkey Federation, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Campbell Outdoor Recreation Association, Quail Unlimited, Tennessee Striped Bass Association and others were on hand. Few were as concerned about the potential of the Commercial Fishing Advisory Council and their political backers having their way as Billy Davis.

Go to www.tnmuskies.org and Davis can show you dozens of reasons why he believes commercial fishing on Melton Hill is a bad idea. Davis has become a musky fishing legend in East Tennessee, has helped spread the word about the lake's fishery all over the country, and knows that nets and muskies won't mix.

"It wouldn't take long for that fishery to be wiped out," Davis said. "Melton Hill has become a destination for musky fishermen and if you put nets in there, well "

TWRA's program to reintroduce musky into Melton Hill has been a success by anybody's standards. Since 1998, the fishery has grown from a truckload of 8-inch musky dumped into the lake to one that produces musky of record proportions. Nets that would catch 5-foot long paddlefish are probably going to take a few 55-inch musky as well.

Lower the mesh-size of the nets to 1-inch and you can start kissing bass, walleye, and just about anything else that swims goodbye as well.

Musky wouldn't be the issue if Norris gets opened to commercial fishing, but then you would have the striped bass guys riled up. And all those big smallmouth in Norris? They're not swimming through a 1-inch mesh, and TWRA doesn't need to spend three-quarters of a million to confirm it.

That's why the legislators that have pushed all this have made an interesting political gamble. On one hand, they are trying to make 262 commercial fishermen happy. On the other, you risk making 871,000 sport fishermen mad.
 
Silverfox,
So what do the commercial "fisherman" target as the primary fish? What do they do with say largemouth or smallmouth bass when those are caught, and presumbly in a gill net? Throw them back over dead, or sell them in some market. Who buys freshwater fish anyway to eat?
 
From what I understand, they are targeting fish like the paddle fish for eggs. I've also read where they catch carp and other non-game fish and sell them for dogfood and stuff like that. I am still looking into the information that I can find on line. I've heard they sell off the non-game fish for 40 cent a lb. Of course you know there probably is bass and other stuff being sold illegally also.

Really pisses me off. The numbers just don't add up. TWRA has spent millions of dollars making the quality fishing locations we have now and they are going to let a few people rape our resources.
 
Kinda like TVA forcing folks off their land at Tellico for $250/acre, and then selling it to developers years later for millions!

Dang shame! I don't know about freshwater commercial fishing but redfish and seatrout were just about wiped out until they moved those guys offshore. What truly can they be thinking unless big money exchanging hands......oooohhh, that could never be the issue!
 
Rep. Niceley (R-District 17) is the same politician who tried to ram commercial deer farming down our throats despite the objections of TWRA's biologists and the vast majority of deer hunters in the state. It's my understanding that he had a hand in the shameful business about "sunsetting" TWRA too.

He is no friend to sportsmen - which is kind of surprising since most of his district (other than Knoxville) is pretty rural. I doubt he's giving much regard to the desires of the people who put him in office on this.

bd
 
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The market is caviar. Even online, paddlefish caviar retails for around $25.00 per ounce, and an average mature female can carry 10 pounds of eggs. You do the math.

Every study that's done keeps showing that paddlefish are overfished in Tennessee, and the commercial guys' response is to open more and more waters.

What makes me mad is that Rep. Niceley and the legislature are forcing TWRA to tie up their resources and their biologists studying how to put more money in the commercial guys' pockets, and we sportsmen have to pay for it with our license dollars!

I want TWRA's biologists studying how to make our sports fisheries better - we want to catch better bass, crappie, trout, stripers, etc. I don't want the sports fisheries suffering because some doofus politician has decided that TWRA needs to spend all its time studying paddlefish instead.

bd
 
So, let me get this straight. It's ok for 1000's of bass fishermen to kill millions of bass a year in tournaments but it's not ok for a man to make a living by catching "non" game species such as catfish, carp, ect?

And yes, a good friend of mine was part of a huge research project about 10 years ago that studied mortality rates for bass tournaments and what was found most of you don't want to hear.
 
It's true that most tourneys kill fish. I've seen it first hand. All the fish that die in the tourneys I go to are taken home and made into supper. I know that doesn't happen everywhere but it does happen more than you think.

While you're bashing the tourney guys for killing a few fish, you need to realize that the money these guys spend is not a few dollars. They spend money on boats, tackle and gas every week. Without them spending that money, a lot of people would be out of jobs.

Even a bigger problem than us killing fish... is the commercial guys killing game fish by the 1000's. No way you can try to net non game fish without also netting the game fish. That's the big issue here. If they want to catch some of the non game fish and can do it without killing the game fish, I have no problem with it as long as they don't rape the lake and spend our tax money and license money trying to figure out how. These nets are going to catch everything... including the shad that game fish eat to stay alive.
 
Rep. Nicely actually is on WNOX every Sunday morning from 8a-9a on the "Bill & Bill & Frank & Frank" show.

Call into this radion show on Sunday morning to ask him about this. I intend to call. I think we need to launch a campaign to slam this jerk. I am going to be pasing out flyers at every business that sells bait and tackle in his district and those close to his district.
 
SilverFox said:
It's true that most tourneys kill fish. I've seen it first hand. All the fish that die in the tourneys I go to are taken home and made into supper. I know that doesn't happen everywhere but it does happen more than you think.

While you're bashing the tourney guys for killing a few fish, you need to realize that the money these guys spend is not a few dollars. They spend money on boats, tackle and gas every week. Without them spending that money, a lot of people would be out of jobs.

Even a bigger problem than us killing fish... is the commercial guys killing game fish by the 1000's. No way you can try to net non game fish without also netting the game fish. That's the big issue here. If they want to catch some of the non game fish and can do it without killing the game fish, I have no problem with it as long as they don't rape the lake and spend our tax money and license money trying to figure out how. These nets are going to catch everything... including the shad that game fish eat to stay alive.

It's not the fish you take home. It's the other of the released fish that die over the next two or three days that you don't see.

Not bashing either. I fish several tournaments every year from Guntersville to Pickwick and even a couple in MS.

Having friends that are fisheries guys in several states, I get "both" sides of the story and the "scientific" opinion is you wish on this issue and the small amount of commercial guys in any state don't even begin to compare to the tournmanent fishermen/weekend warriors and their kill rate. I had a long conversation with my best friend who has worked in a couple of different states about this one year when they were raising cane over at Guntersville about commercial fishermen. Sad thing is, the idiots complaining were guides and posting hundreds of pictures a month of 5+lb fish on their websites. Then, that May, the Elite Series came to town and some of the guys caught 100+ fish over 5lbs in the tournament alone. Didn't seem to be hurting that fishery any but you should have read the crap the guides over there were spewing.
 
Silverfox, Your assessment of Billy Davis as a friend to fishermen is wrong on so many levels. He has a stated goal of shutting down parts of Melton Hill at Bull run steam plant. He makes money on his website and his "guide service". He wants to keep as many people from catching muskies as he can. Just read his web site front page. Larry Dahlberg came down here from Minnesota and fished with Davis now after a couple days on Melton Hill he's putting the squeeze on some commissioners to change thing there. Just be aware who you align yourself with. If there are any other striper or musky fishermen on here who fish Melton Hill they'll respond.
 
Bamma swamper,

Your comment on The small amount of commercial guys killing way less than a tournament is misleading.

IF there are very few commercial guys, AND they are using restricted take methods (No gill nets) you may be accurate.

IF they are using gill nets, the commercial guys are bycatch killing TONS of fish. Period.

Gill nets are amazingly effective killing machines. Basically anything over a certain size (determined by net mesh size) that hits the net is dead. "Ooops... sorry bout that 8lb smallmouth, we were trying for paddlefish and catfish."

I have seen pieces of "ghost nets" with hundreds of rotting fish and birds in them along with live and freshly dead fish.

Someone who knows what they are doing can take a massive amount of fish in a short period of time with a gill net. They are simply not species specific.
 
Harold Money jr said:
Silverfox, Your assessment of Billy Davis as a friend to fishermen is wrong on so many levels. He has a stated goal of shutting down parts of Melton Hill at Bull run steam plant. He makes money on his website and his "guide service". He wants to keep as many people from catching muskies as he can. Just read his web site front page. Larry Dahlberg came down here from Minnesota and fished with Davis now after a couple days on Melton Hill he's putting the squeeze on some commissioners to change thing there. Just be aware who you align yourself with. If there are any other striper or musky fishermen on here who fish Melton Hill they'll respond.

That was not my writing... I copied it from the general forum and posted it here. I do not know Davis. Thanks for the information.
 
There's a big difference between tournaments and commercial fishing that everybody is missing. Post-release mortality is an issue, sure, but every guy in those tournaments is paying for a fishing license that helps TWRA protect the resource.

Commercial fishermen don't pay their own way. Our license dollars subsidize them. The price of commercial fishing licenses don't cover what commercial fishing costs the State in terms of enforcement and monitoring of the resource.

So when wildlife officers have to patrol these newly-opened waters to prevent poaching of paddlefish, we pay for it.

When TWRA biologists study these newly-opened waters to evaluate whether the fishery is viable and not being overfished, we pay for it.

Next time you say, "I wish there was more enforcement of our game and fish regulations," remember that we're going to have fewer officers there to help because they're going to be tied up watching the gill netters.

If the General Assembly or the TWRC wants to raise commercial fishing license prices to a level where they pay for the increased costs involved in evaluating and protecting these newly-opened fisheries, then maybe I would be a little less concerned. But right now, it's all being done on our backs as sportsmen.

bd
 
I have fished a lot in the 2 1/2 years since moving to TN. I have seen one creel clerk on the water and talked to him briefly. I've seen a few GW boats on Douglas right after one of the drownings we had this year. Since then, nothing. They are stretched out no doubt.

Before moving here, it was normal to see a GW in South Carolina. They would often times check you on the water from boats that you had no clue were GW boats. I worked with them on catching some poachers back home. They were just more of them to where they could actually make a difference. Here, that doesn't seem to be the case.

It was normal to have them checking you coming off the lake or going on. Sometimes they would spend an entire day at the ramp checking everyone.
 
I just dont get it,what is the benefit for TWRA,or us to let the commercial fishermen expand?Wonder how many smallmouth will die?

To be honestmit makes me sick,killing a smallmouth is a horrible thought to me,they are just a special fish.

Its funny,growing up in SC like Silver Fox,I never saw one,not sure if any lakes have em,maybe Jocasse,but once I caught one,most fun Ive had fishing.
 
There's nothing like it to me. I had never caught one before moving here. Now, it's what I hope I hook into every cast. I've caught some nice ones this year... and lost 2 monsters on Cherokee last week at the boat. Gives me the shakes.
 
Football Hunter said:
I just dont get it,what is the benefit for TWRA,or us to let the commercial fishermen expand?Wonder how many smallmouth will die?

To be honestmit makes me sick,killing a smallmouth is a horrible thought to me,they are just a special fish.

Its funny,growing up in SC like Silver Fox,I never saw one,not sure if any lakes have em,maybe Jocasse,but once I caught one,most fun Ive had fishing.
lol smallmouth are all that matter....
 
Just an FYI, but on the TWRA website there is a write-up of the plan to study opening up these new waters and the associated costs. Click on the picture of the paddlefish and it will link you in.

In the article there is a link for public comments on the proposed plan. As of early this week TWRA had received two comments. The public comment period is open through Jan. 11.
 
catman529 said:
Football Hunter said:
I just dont get it,what is the benefit for TWRA,or us to let the commercial fishermen expand?Wonder how many smallmouth will die?

To be honestmit makes me sick,killing a smallmouth is a horrible thought to me,they are just a special fish.

Its funny,growing up in SC like Silver Fox,I never saw one,not sure if any lakes have em,maybe Jocasse,but once I caught one,most fun Ive had fishing.
lol smallmouth are all that matter....
No,not "all" that matters,most imortant to me though,who rattled your cage?????,nobody mentioned carp,I guess cause so few would care,dont know.
 
It wouldn't hurt to write all our congressmen also. Here is what I just sent."

It has recently been brought to my attention that you voted yes on HB0903.
Why on earth would you do this? I fish primarily Norris and the last thing
it needs is commercial fishing. My family and I have always voted for you.
However, if this is the type bill you are going to support , you will have had
my last vote. My family and friends are all against this law. I hope the commercial
fishermen donated a lot to your campaign funds as you will need it. It never
ceases to amaze me how legislators like to meddle in areas they know nothing
about. For God�s sake stick to your jobs and let TWRA do the job for which
they are TRAINED and educated .
Sincerely,
xxxx
 

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