Asian carp

[TRIGGER]

Thought they didn't eat any bait fish?? I have heard of them being caught on jigs on the bottom but I had one blister a 6" swimbait today. I didn't foul hook it, it engulfed the swimbait. Hmmm

 

[GRIT]

Was on Kentucky and Barkley lake Thursday and Friday and seen them eating a dead bloated fish.I have never seen this many on Kentucky lake before .

 

[Spurhunter]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[RUGER]

Buddy of mine caught one last week.
It ate a swim bait as well.


Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

 

[catman529]

I've heard the bighead carp are more likely to eat a bait than the silver carp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WTM]

they cant feed on baitfish. silver and bighead carp have no way of digesting them since they dont have true stomachs. they digest planktin types through their gill rakes. imagine a fish like that swimming around with its big mouth open engulfing as much water as it can in order to filter every tiny particle from it.

 

[choupique]

they cant feed on baitfish. silver and bighead carp have no way of digesting them since they dont have true stomachs. they digest planktin types through their gill rakes. imagine a fish like that swimming around with its big mouth open engulfing as much water as it can in order to filter every tiny particle from it.

That's a bunch of bunk. No minnows (the family, not the general term) have stomachs, they have an alkaline digestive tract, but there's plenty of species that eat other fish -- pikeminnows, creek chubs, fallfish, etc. Bigheads have fine gill rakers that they use to direct food items into the esophagus, but they can and will eat small fish given the chance, and yes they'll eat lures. The gill rakers on silvers are fused together into a spongy mass that has a slimy mucous coating; this allows them to eat smaller zooplankton and even phytoplankton (!) but it also means they can't force a larger food item past the mat. They won't eat most lures, unless it's something really tiny.

 

[WTM]

they cant feed on baitfish. silver and bighead carp have no way of digesting them since they dont have true stomachs. they digest planktin types through their gill rakes. imagine a fish like that swimming around with its big mouth open engulfing as much water as it can in order to filter every tiny particle from it.

That's a bunch of bunk. No minnows (the family, not the general term) have stomachs, they have an alkaline digestive tract, but there's plenty of species that eat other fish -- pikeminnows, creek chubs, fallfish, etc. Bigheads have fine gill rakers that they use to direct food items into the esophagus, but they can and will eat small fish given the chance, and yes they'll eat lures. The gill rakers on silvers are fused together into a spongy mass that has a slimy mucous coating; this allows them to eat smaller zooplankton and even phytoplankton (!) but it also means they can't force a larger food item past the mat. They won't eat most lures, unless it's something really tiny.

lol thats laughable, like i said, they have NO TRUE STOMACH, just a foregut and hind gut. they cant eat anything that cant pass through their gill rake system, big head or silver. according to the gut content study only 20% of organic matter makes it to the digestive track. and like you said, "unless its something extremely tiny". i would imagine Trigger was probably throwing something like a 10xd. big heads and silver are both closely related. black and grass carp are in another group in the minnow family.

so here is the thing, if these 2 types of carp are eating 3-5" shad, then why are more than one caught at a time? you would think that you could catch one on every cast, but they are not, as these are incidental catches. the only way to purposely catch one on a hook is by suspending a particle based food from a cage ball with small hooks attached to it.

here is one of the gut content studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... po=56.1538

 

[ZachMarkus]

My buddy fished a tournament on KY lake Saturday, they ran all the way to the dam and fished the tail race. He said they caught 20-25 Asian carp on swim baits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[choupique]

lol thats laughable, like i said, they have NO TRUE STOMACH, just a foregut and hind gut. they cant eat anything that cant pass through their gill rake system, big head or silver. according to the gut content study only 20% of organic matter makes it to the digestive track. and like you said, "unless its something extremely tiny". i would imagine Trigger was probably throwing something like a 10xd. big heads and silver are both closely related. black and grass carp are in another group in the minnow family.

so here is the thing, if these 2 types of carp are eating 3-5" shad, then why are more than one caught at a time? you would think that you could catch one on every cast, but they are not, as these are incidental catches. the only way to purposely catch one on a hook is by suspending a particle based food from a cage ball with small hooks attached to it.

here is one of the gut content studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... po=56.1538

Extremely tiny only counts on silvers, when there's a big bony mass that partially blocks the throat. Have you ever actually looked at how the gill rakers are arranged? You can shove your fist all the way down a big bighead's throat down into its gut. Easily. The gill rakers just strain material that would otherwise go through the opercular opening, they don't block the gut. I've caught dozens of bigheads on jigs and streamers, they will most certainly eat fish when they get the chance, and I suspect many of the the diet studies that have been published don't reflect situations like below a dam or obstruction where they can stack up and blast schools of small shad. At several of the control structures out in west TN you can cast through mixed schools; feel your bait ticking across the silvers (you'll foul-hook a few) then BAM it gets hammered by a bighead. One after another. There's no way that's incidental.

FWIW, a couple weeks ago I got about a #35 grass carp on a 5" streamer while targeting stripers below a mainstem TN River dam. I could barely reach the eye of the hook it was so far down its throat. Now THAT's incidental.

 

[TRIGGER]

My buddy fished a tournament on KY lake Saturday, they ran all the way to the dam and fished the tail race. He said they caught 20-25 Asian carp on swim baits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The tail race??? They locked through and fished Ky dam?

 

[ZachMarkus]

My buddy fished a tournament on KY lake Saturday, they ran all the way to the dam and fished the tail race. He said they caught 20-25 Asian carp on swim baits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The tail race??? They locked through and fished Ky dam?

The tail race at pickwick dam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[TRIGGER]

My buddy fished a tournament on KY lake Saturday, they ran all the way to the dam and fished the tail race. He said they caught 20-25 Asian carp on swim baits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The tail race??? They locked through and fished Ky dam?

The tail race at pickwick dam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a haul. Where was the tournament out of?

 

[ZachMarkus]

My buddy fished a tournament on KY lake Saturday, they ran all the way to the dam and fished the tail race. He said they caught 20-25 Asian carp on swim baits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The tail race??? They locked through and fished Ky dam?

The tail race at pickwick dam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That's a haul. Where was the tournament out of?

Mouse tail


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[WTM]

lol thats laughable, like i said, they have NO TRUE STOMACH, just a foregut and hind gut. they cant eat anything that cant pass through their gill rake system, big head or silver. according to the gut content study only 20% of organic matter makes it to the digestive track. and like you said, "unless its something extremely tiny". i would imagine Trigger was probably throwing something like a 10xd. big heads and silver are both closely related. black and grass carp are in another group in the minnow family.

so here is the thing, if these 2 types of carp are eating 3-5" shad, then why are more than one caught at a time? you would think that you could catch one on every cast, but they are not, as these are incidental catches. the only way to purposely catch one on a hook is by suspending a particle based food from a cage ball with small hooks attached to it.

here is one of the gut content studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... po=56.1538

Extremely tiny only counts on silvers, when there's a big bony mass that partially blocks the throat. Have you ever actually looked at how the gill rakers are arranged? You can shove your fist all the way down a big bighead's throat down into its gut. Easily. The gill rakers just strain material that would otherwise go through the opercular opening, they don't block the gut. I've caught dozens of bigheads on jigs and streamers, they will most certainly eat fish when they get the chance, and I suspect many of the the diet studies that have been published don't reflect situations like below a dam or obstruction where they can stack up and blast schools of small shad. At several of the control structures out in west TN you can cast through mixed schools; feel your bait ticking across the silvers (you'll foul-hook a few) then BAM it gets hammered by a bighead. One after another. There's no way that's incidental.

FWIW, a couple weeks ago I got about a #35 grass carp on a 5" streamer while targeting stripers below a mainstem TN River dam. I could barely reach the eye of the hook it was so far down its throat. Now THAT's incidental.

yep grass carp and common carp are of different sub-family and genus than silver or bighead. they have dual digestive tracks that can eat either animal or plant matter.

if you think silver or bighead are eating a lot of shad, do a study on it and send it up to USFGS or one of the multitudes of universities who are studying them. im sure they will value your input.

 

[UpperTully]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

 

[Smo]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

When the carp first started there , did y'all see a decline in bait fish?

 

[WTM]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

When the carp first started there , did y'all see a decline in bait fish?

not really. the shad decline has more to do with shad kills the last 2 winters at least on KY lake. last fall's trapnet study showed above average shad numbers, but when the bays froze over and the water temps dropped into the 30's it kills the shad in large numbers. how else can you go from above average numbers to hardly any shad in a couple of months? contrary to some theories, the carp arent eating the shad lol. the good thing about a shad kill is that the next spring spawn, their populations will explode. some of the elite anglers where fishing the shad spawn.

the same type of thinking goes into the lower numbers of LMB this year. its a spawn problem, nothing else. paul rister even told us what to expect on north KY lake and yet anglers still dont believe. the elite anglers caught the exact numbers and size of bass that he predicted last fall. the exceptional spawn year fish of 2008 are pretty much done. the above average fish that are left are the ones in the 5-7 lb range.

same goes for crappie. why do you think i asked you if that big crappie you snagged was a black or white crappie? the same reason i asked Mr. Simms what percentage of his haul were black crappie. why did his biologist friend ask him the same question? it has to do with the dynamics of the lake, water clarity and the spawn rates linked to both. blacks and whites are 2 different fish in the tactics we use to catch them. like Paul said, if crappie anglers arent willing to change tactics then they will get left behind.

then you have perception. for example, during a good spawn year any angler with a rod can catch descent bass and crappie and they get into the thinking that they are above average anglers. then when a bad spawn year rolls around they think since they are above average anglers then there must be something that is causing it. except they never think of their average or below average angling skills. thats why i said this year will seperate the amateurs from the pros, and it has so far.

i fear for KY lake in the long term, but all of these seasonal changes arent due to the carp problem, yet. it amazes me that hard core anglers dont take the time to learn these seasonal patterns and do a little reading into the trapnet studies. it might make them better fishermen. was it einstein that said that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, is the definition of insanity?

 

[UpperTully]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

when the carp first started there , did y'all see a decline in bait fish?

Not when they first started. It started becoming noticeable several years down the road. I quit fishing the river chutes about 2004-2005 and haven't been back since. I've read reports and talked to several that have reported the bass were making a come back alone, so I assume the bait fish are as well. I plan on making a few trips here soon to see how it is this year.

I don't know what is going on, but it seems the asian carp aren't as bad in some areas as they once where.

 

[Smo]

Thanks for the reply Guys.

It's hard for me being a newcomer basically to Ky Lake then run into a year like this makes it even tougher lol

But I'll still be after them every chance I get.

WTM that's a good point about the cold weather killing off the shad, I'd say that is most likely what has happened.

There doesn't seem to be a shad shortage upstream of us.

I saw a pic where Richard Simms was showing a yellowtail minnow and Zach Markus was catching smallmouth bass below one of the dams in an area known to have big shad runs as well as bedding activity.

But the weather was a lot different in those areas than what we expierienced here last Winter.

 

[WTM]

Thanks for the reply Guys.

It's hard for me being a newcomer basically to Ky Lake then run into a year like this makes it even tougher lol

But I'll still be after them every chance I get.

WTM that's a good point about the cold weather killing off the shad, I'd say that is most likely what has happened.

There doesn't seem to be a shad shortage upstream of us.

I saw a pic where Richard Simms was showing a yellowtail minnow and Zach Markus was catching smallmouth bass below one of the dams in an area known to have big shad runs as well as bedding activity.

But the weather was a lot different in those areas than what we expierienced here last Winter.

yep, i told another tndeer member the same thing in a pm question he had about the shad spawn north of us. i imagine that in the larger bays there was enough warmer water for them to survive. we will see how well the shad recovered in this fall's trapnet studies.

 

[bluball]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

When the carp first started there , did y'all see a decline in bait fish?

not really. the shad decline has more to do with shad kills the last 2 winters at least on KY lake. last fall's trapnet study showed above average shad numbers, but when the bays froze over and the water temps dropped into the 30's it kills the shad in large numbers. how else can you go from above average numbers to hardly any shad in a couple of months? contrary to some theories, the carp arent eating the shad lol. the good thing about a shad kill is that the next spring spawn, their populations will explode. some of the elite anglers where fishing the shad spawn.

the same type of thinking goes into the lower numbers of LMB this year. its a spawn problem, nothing else. paul rister even told us what to expect on north KY lake and yet anglers still dont believe. the elite anglers caught the exact numbers and size of bass that he predicted last fall. the exceptional spawn year fish of 2008 are pretty much done. the above average fish that are left are the ones in the 5-7 lb range.

same goes for crappie. why do you think i asked you if that big crappie you snagged was a black or white crappie? the same reason i asked Mr. Simms what percentage of his haul were black crappie. why did his biologist friend ask him the same question? it has to do with the dynamics of the lake, water clarity and the spawn rates linked to both. blacks and whites are 2 different fish in the tactics we use to catch them. like Paul said, if crappie anglers arent willing to change tactics then they will get left behind.

then you have perception. for example, during a good spawn year any angler with a rod can catch descent bass and crappie and they get into the thinking that they are above average anglers. then when a bad spawn year rolls around they think since they are above average anglers then there must be something that is causing it. except they never think of their average or below average angling skills. thats why i said this year will seperate the amateurs from the pros, and it has so far.

i fear for KY lake in the long term, but all of these seasonal changes arent due to the carp problem, yet. it amazes me that hard core anglers dont take the time to learn these seasonal patterns and do a little reading into the trapnet studies. it might make them better fishermen. was it einstein that said that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, is the definition of insanity?

I never heard of a shad kill after everything froze,not from anyone i know atleast.I was on the lake when it was thawing out alot,had to use main river ramps to get on lake.I never saw any either,wonder why.I did catch a 14in crappie the other day that had a big shad half way swallowed though.

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

 

[bluball]

Bad news guys. They ruined our MS River fisheries in short order.

Man, you ain't kidding! I remember bass fishing all river chutes around Memphis before the asian carp hit. What i'd give to get days and some of those chutes back the way it used to be!

when the carp first started there , did y'all see a decline in bait fish?

Not when they first started. It started becoming noticeable several years down the road. I quit fishing the river chutes about 2004-2005 and haven't been back since. I've read reports and talked to several that have reported the bass were making a come back alone, so I assume the bait fish are as well. I plan on making a few trips here soon to see how it is this year.

I don't know what is going on, but it seems the asian carp aren't as bad in some areas as they once where.

From I-40 bridge to parislanding 79 bridge the carp have tripled in the last 4yrs.Ask any good bass angler,they will confirm its terrible.

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

 

[WTM]

lol, most of the winter killed shad will sink to the bottom unless they get trapped in the shallow creeks which is kind of rare in mid winter. the gulls at jville and 3 mile slough where going nuts for a day or 2 after the first thaw. there were huge shad kills on south at pickwick, wilson, guntersville and on the chick and watts bar.

 

[bluball]

This fish must not have ate them,they are thin.Usually fish are harder to catch after a kill,bite wasnt affected after thaw out.I know some commercial fishermen who have said there was a lack of shad before the freeze.I truthfully am not sure,but do know the bite is usually affected after a winter kill.

lol, most of the winter killed shad will sink to the bottom unless they get trapped in the shallow creeks which is kind of rare in mid winter. the gulls at jville and 3 mile slough where going nuts for a day or 2 after the first thaw. there were huge shad kills on south at pickwick, wilson, guntersville and on the chick and watts bar.

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

 

[user 14220]

I watched several shows on the food network about Asian carp. In every show they talk about how delicious they are to eat.
Anyone have any first hand experience eating them?

 

[RUGER]

I watched several shows on the food network about Asian carp. In every show they talk about how delicious they are to eat.
Anyone have any first hand experience eating them?

scn said he was at a seminar one time before he retired and they cooked them and he said they were delicious.
I am pretty sure they were the silver though, don't think it was the big head.

I went to Reelfoot a couple years ago with the sole purpose of snagging a couple and dressing them.
From what I was told they spoil much faster than fish we are used to dealing with so I carried a cooler and a couple bags of ice.
My plan was to snag a couple, gut them then pack them in ice immediately then come home and cut them up.
I have snagged them at the spillway till I was literally tired of reeling them in.
That day I managed 2 big heads and that was IT. LOL

Don't rekon I have been back since.

I do know one day we were down there and were literally getting one on every single cast.
There was a little dude down there, he was "asain" is all I know, no clue where he was from and he didn't speak a lick of English but we gave him every fish we got in.
LOL he had them in the trunk and back seat of his car.
You literally couldn't pack another one in the trunk and his back seat was pretty full. It was about 105 degrees that day.
I can't remember what county his plates were from but I do remember it was a pretty long haul from where we were at. I can't even begin to imagine what that car smelled like when he got home. :shock:

 

[woodyard]

I watched several shows on the food network about Asian carp. In every show they talk about how delicious they are to eat.
Anyone have any first hand experience eating them?

scn said he was at a seminar one time before he retired and they cooked them and he said they were delicious.
I am pretty sure they were the silver though, don't think it was the big head.

I went to Reelfoot a couple years ago with the sole purpose of snagging a couple and dressing them.
From what I was told they spoil much faster than fish we are used to dealing with so I carried a cooler and a couple bags of ice.
My plan was to snag a couple, gut them then pack them in ice immediately then come home and cut them up.
I have snagged them at the spillway till I was literally tired of reeling them in.
That day I managed 2 big heads and that was IT. LOL

Don't rekon I have been back since.

I do know one day we were down there and were literally getting one on every single cast.
There was a little dude down there, he was "asain" is all I know, no clue where he was from and he didn't speak a lick of English but we gave him every fish we got in.
LOL he had them in the trunk and back seat of his car.
You literally couldn't pack another one in the trunk and his back seat was pretty full. It was about 105 degrees that day.
I can't remember what county his plates were from but I do remember it was a pretty long haul from where we were at. I can't even begin to imagine what that car smelled like when he got home. :shock:

That car probably smelled about like the mailbox I tried to deliver to one Monday in July or August one year. Some of the employees( Mexicans) decided to go fishing and give the boss a mess of fish on a Sat or Sun. They put them in their mailbox and I about puked and died when I opened it. Boy was that rough! :lol:

 

[RUGER]

Oh my, I can only imagine woodyard!!! :shock:

 

[Headhunter]

You can say it is winter kill all you want, what does not make sense is before Asian Carp, there were some terrible cold winters in the 1980's and early 1990's, but when you went to KY lake, especially late July, August there were GIANT schools of shad, even with huge winter kill. Those schools have not been seen by anyone I know in the last few years.