Anyone ever tried the non-saboted ML bullets?

[fairchaser]

I have hated sabots for years because I am convinced it is nigh impossible to get all the plastic residue out of the barrel. You will lose a little accuracy with every shot and eventually the barrel is worthless. I've wanted to go with a non-sabot type bullet and have seen a few on the market but I haven't changed. Anyone have any experience with these bullets and I am not talking about the maxi-balls or buffalo bullets?

 

[thetoolman]

Powerbelts. Been using them for years.

 

[fairchaser]

Powerbelts. Been using them for years.

I like the way the powerbelts load and are pretty accurate but they still have plastic.

 

[cecil30-30]

Before I switched the Savage smokeless this year,I was useing the Hornady FPB..And had good luck with them.They gave me 1.5inch groups all day long out of my CVA Kodiak with 100grs of 777.I used them for 3 years..Wish I could use them in my savage.

 

[GRAMPS]

I have tried all kinds of non-saboted bullets in my T/C Black Diamond but always get terrible accuracy when using them.

 

[BlountArrow]

I have tried all kinds of non-saboted bullets in my....but always get terrible accuracy when using them.

Ditto! I know they have to work for certain people and certain guns because they sale too many of them, but they don't work for me! Power Belts are probably the number 1 selling muzzleloader bullet but I have had a Knight Wolverine, a T/C Encore, and a T/C Omega...neither one shot a non-saboted bullet worth a sh!t. Out to 50 yards you could "kill with it" (boy do I hate that statement) but outside of that they were on their way into orbit. I tried multiple powder loads as well - so I don't need any lessons from anyone please. For me, saboted bullets shoot exponentially better, but they are a tremendous pain in the @ss to reload them after a shot or two. I like any of the Barnes "type" saboted bullets 250 or 300gr.

 

[Matador]

Check this link out http://montanabullet works.com May have to plug it into your search engine. They make cast bullets and they have information on their bullets for muzzleloaders. I believe you reach the information on the FAQ and it gives you the page.

 

[FrontierGander]

Thor bullets

 

[bigtex]

You could always go to the old fashioned T/C Maxi balls. I used them for years, never could get a lot of accuracy out of them though.

 

[fairchaser]

I have tried all kinds of non-saboted bullets in my....but always get terrible accuracy when using them.

Ditto! I know they have to work for certain people and certain guns because they sale too many of them, but they don't work for me! Power Belts are probably the number 1 selling muzzleloader bullet but I have had a Knight Wolverine, a T/C Encore, and a T/C Omega...neither one shot a non-saboted bullet worth a sh!t. Out to 50 yards you could "kill with it" (boy do I hate that statement) but outside of that they were on their way into orbit. I tried multiple powder loads as well - so I don't need any lessons from anyone please. For me, saboted bullets shoot exponentially better, but they are a tremendous pain in the @ss to reload them after a shot or two. I like any of the Barnes "type" saboted bullets 250 or 300gr.

This is the exact reason I haven't stepped out on that limb. My Omega shoots great with the Barnes 250 gr expanders, so I am hesitant to start experimenting with a sabotless load. I wish there were better alternatives. But, I guess I'll have to wait for one.

 

[FrontierGander]

TCs in general are not the best conical shooters. TC has such poor faith in them that they advise you not to shoot conicals. They make a bs claim that the 1:28 twist is to fast for conicals but the truth is, their barrels suck. The QLA section of the barrel is the culprit of poor accuracy with conicals.

 

[Brownie]

I still shoot the Buffalo's and have had good luck with them. The only problem is I feel like they don't expand at all. They never leave a good blood trail, but as long as you see where the deer runs you will find them within 50 yards if a good shot is placed. As far as distance accuracy, I'm unsure. I have only shot deer out to about 35-40 yards tops.

 

[7mm08]

Did the Hornady FPBs then Thor. I would rather clean the plastic out at the end of a hunt every night than trying to FORCE one of the above down a clean barrel. Barnes for me from now on.

 

[paboom]

I have hated sabots for years because I am convinced it is nigh impossible to get all the plastic residue out of the barrel. You will lose a little accuracy with every shot and eventually the barrel is worthless. I've wanted to go with a non-sabot type bullet and have seen a few on the market but I haven't changed. Anyone have any experience with these bullets and I am not talking about the maxi-balls or buffalo bullets?

I don't believe the residue you're seeing is from plastic. Many of my MLs have thousands of shots through them, majority of which are sabots, and they shoot better now than they did when I bought them. In all my years I've never seen a ML barrel 'ruined' by plastic.

If you're looking for a really good conical, look at Bullshop conicals. The Thors are a good bullet as well.

 

[Boone 58]

I use the Hornady FPB's in the 350 grain. also avail in the 300. Have taken two really nice bucks with them including my best ever.

 

[GRAMPS]

Muzzleloaders can be strange birds anyway. I have a friend that shoots the exact same MZ loader as me. We have shot side by side at the range. His rifle shoots Powerbelts like a charm with great accuracy. I have tried the same bullet with the same powder load as him and cannot even get my shots anywhere on the target. :crazy:

 

[fairchaser]

I have hated sabots for years because I am convinced it is nigh impossible to get all the plastic residue out of the barrel. You will lose a little accuracy with every shot and eventually the barrel is worthless. I've wanted to go with a non-sabot type bullet and have seen a few on the market but I haven't changed. Anyone have any experience with these bullets and I am not talking about the maxi-balls or buffalo bullets?

I don't believe the residue you're seeing is from plastic. Many of my MLs have thousands of shots through them, majority of which are sabots, and they shoot better now than they did when I bought them. In all my years I've never seen a ML barrel 'ruined' by plastic.

If you're looking for a really good conical, look at Bullshop conicals. The Thors are a good bullet as well.

I clean and clean and it seems like I have to back off my powder charge every year to get the same accuracy due to blow by. I assume this is due to plastic residue build up but hopefully you have a better idea and solution.

 

[FrontierGander]

wheres the blow by at? which gun are you shooting

 

[fairchaser]

wheres the blow by at? which gun are you shooting

I shoot a TC Omega with 130 grs. pyrodex and a barnes 250 gr expander bullet. Last year I had to reduce the load to 110 grs. to get the bullets to group. Nothing was changed but suddenly, the shots would not group and I got fliers. Once I reduced the load, I started grouping again. I assume its because of residue in the grooves of the barrel allowing the pressure to blow by the sabot and reducing the bullet spin.

 

[FrontierGander]

check the barrel lugs. Some were welded on, the screw on type have issues at loosening up. The synthetic stocks are an issue as well as they tend to move around in the barrel lug area.

 

[fairchaser]

check the barrel lugs. Some were welded on, the screw on type have issues at loosening up. The synthetic stocks are an issue as well as they tend to move around in the barrel lug area.

It's a laminated stock and the barrel lugs are welded, but I will check everything to make sure its good and tight.

 

[Roost 1]

I have shot many sabots thru my Omega without the problem you mention. Try try the Harvester Crush Rib sabot with whatever bullet you choose and BH 209 powder.

 

[fairchaser]

I have shot many sabots thru my Omega without the problem you mention. Try try the Harvester Crush Rib sabot with whatever bullet you choose and BH 209 powder.

Thanks Roost: I'll give it a try. :grin:

 

[UTGrad]

Anybody here remember DA's awesome post on the Hornady FPB a few years back? Pure carnage!

 

[S.vitreum]

Anybody here remember DA's awesome post on the Hornady FPB a few years back? Pure carnage!

He is quite the expert on sabotless. :confused:

 

[Deer Assassin]

i am no expert

here is the low down on the fpb


back in 08 105 loose 777 chronoed 1650 ish fps



deer one

10 point field dressd 177 lbs pass thru

shot 40 yds 1/4 too shot ran 30 yds hit the ground cough spit blood got up walked 20 yds single lung

deer 2

8 point dressed 175

shot 10 yds broadside pass thru

ran about 100 yds but left a blood trail ray charles could follow

deer 3 11 pt


shot 45 yds broad side pass thru

dressed 177 lbs
ran about 50 ish blood trail was awesome

deer 4 80 lb dressed spike(nubbn Buck) 54 yds

double shoulder punch ran no where




last year


i did 105 loose different ml with the 300 fpb

prolly about 1800 fps might be a lil less

killed a spike at 10 yds ran 30 dead

also shot a wild dog med size mix at 50 yds

devistation but he hollered for about 30 sec but never took a step

 

[S.vitreum]

Nice pictures/deer. I meant no ill towards you, but you made my point precisely. 5 data points and your longest shot was 54 yards. These guys are the experts:

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com ... =smokeless

 

[Deer Assassin]

Nice pictures/deer. I meant no ill towards you, but you made my point precisely. 5 data points and your longest shot was 54 yards. These guys are the experts:

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com ... =smokeless

those were five data points that i picked out on extremely large deer all around 225 live wight heck i kill a bout 10 a year with various ml including a savage smokless

the guys on doug's bord are experts with a smokless ml

the orginal poster did specify what type of ml he was referring to

i have probably killed 15 with a savage and the owner before me killed a deer at 326 yds with my savage i have no issue with a sabot projectile

the fpb bullet cant be used with a savage not enough pressure to ignite smokless powder however in a trad or inline ml they are fine i shot 3 inch groups at 175 yds with the 300 fpb all day long

but it is all good

dont give a crap about powerbelts unless it is the 405 gn lead hp at 1540 fps it is awesome the 350 copper ones are ok as well but as stated above still have a plastic skirt


but a hndy fpb will get it done with no sabot

or just build a smokless 40 cal like ewc did he shoots it with no sabots

personally id like a 338 or 375 smokless ml built on a 700 action

 

[dh1984]

have you all tried the Thor bullet that's something like a barnes but they full bore with little to no blow by with good accuracy

 

[FrontierGander]

have you all tried the Thor bullet that's something like a barnes but they full bore with little to no blow by with good accuracy

Thats my go to bullet. I loaded them up a couple days ago when sighting in my Wolf and you know you are getting a high quality bullet with that one.