Antlerless

[Vermin93]

The videos of Friday's TFWC committee meeting are now posted.

The deer discussion begins at the 16:58 mark and is worth a listen.

https://www.twra.tv/playlist-view/56be4ec7a071565d4a4da242/56be61dea071565d4a4da244

The results of the Unit L antlerless deer private lands hunt were posted by TWRA. Several of the TFWC commissioners were not happy about the antlered bucks that were illegally killed during this hunt. They also did not seem very supportive of the way TWRA dealt with the violators or with TWRA's philosophy of cutting hunters slack during the first year of a regulation change. Several commissioners, especially Trey Teague, were troubled by this. It will be interesting to see if that hunt is allowed to continue.

Additionally, it sounds like Tennessee's definition of antlerless deer may be up for discussion this year. Commissioners Jeff McMillin and Trey Teague indicated that they feel Tennessee's definition of antlerless deer may be too liberal and that it provides hunters an excuse to kill antlered deer without using a buck tag. Commissioner Teague said that he thinks it will be discussed going forward.

 

[Os2 Outdoors]

The videos of Friday's TFWC committee meeting are now posted.

The deer discussion begins at the 16:58 mark and is worth a listen.

https://www.twra.tv/playlist-view/56be4ec7a071565d4a4da242/56be61dea071565d4a4da244

The results of the Unit L antlerless deer private lands hunt were posted by TWRA. Several of the TFWC commissioners were not happy about the antlered bucks that were illegally killed during this hunt. They also did not seem very supportive of the way TWRA dealt with the violators or with TWRA's philosophy of cutting hunters slack during the first year of a regulation change. Several commissioners, especially Trey Teague, were troubled by this. It will be interesting to see if that hunt is allowed to continue.

Additionally, it sounds like Tennessee's definition of antlerless deer may be up for discussion this year. Commissioners Jeff McMillin and Trey Teague indicated that they feel Tennessee's definition of antlerless deer may be too liberal and that it provides hunters an excuse to kill antlered deer without using a buck tag. Commissioner Teague said that he thinks it will be discussed going forward.

I kinda agree with the TWRA giving some folks a break. I personally talked two 3 different county officers I'm friends with and they all were approaching it the same way, they were doing it on a case by case scenario but no matter what they was confiscating the antlers.

I would like to see the antlerless rules reviewed. I feel it could be tougher and that ignorance of the laws is not an excuse. Some use this as a crutch a lot.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Tennessee Lead]

Tagged for later watching


Sent from the barrel of a model 70 at 3300 fps

 

[tree_ghost]

Sometimes there are honest mistakes made and a little grace is appropriate for those situations. I do understand the commissions stance however...when a law is made its meant to be followed. The difficult part of this scenario is finding the middle ground....

Now as far as the antler less buck harvests I agree with the commission. A button buck is one thing to make a mistake shooting, but a spike is a whole different deal IMO. I would expect big changes coming in this area of the regs given the sentiment of the commission. It will be interesting to see what transpires in a few months!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TboneD]

As we've all heard, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I can't believe folks were shooting bucks on this hunt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[landman]

So am I reading this right
9 spikes under 3"

Guess that legal right?

69 bucks with horns over 3"
Could even be a 4, 6,7,8,9,etc point buck?
it's not the first time there's been an antler less hunt in TN

Bust their A##

 

[losthunter]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds. I have trouble distinguishing. Wonder how many people shot a buck guessing it was under 3 inches. I know I personally could not tell unless I was right on top of the deer. I would err on the side of caution and not shoot.

 

[Vermin93]

So am I reading this right
9 spikes under 3"

Guess that legal right?

69 bucks with horns over 3"
Could even be a 4, 6,7,8,9,etc point buck?
it's not the first time there's been an antler less hunt in TN

Bust their A##

Commissioner McMilin asked if the violators were cited for illegal harvest. TWRA said that because of all the confusion in the first season, they only wrote tickets if it was an obvious case where someone was knowingly trying to take a buck out of season. Otherwise, they gave a verbal or warning citation. Ed Carter from TWRA explained that they have an unofficial operating policy to cut people slack for a year on activity related to a regulation change. Commissioner Teague was not the least bit happy about it.

The deer discussion is 15 minutes worth watching.

 

[Tennessee Lead]

Interesting



Sent from the barrel of a model 70 at 3300 fps

 

[BSK]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds. I have trouble distinguishing. Wonder how many people shot a buck guessing it was under 3 inches. I know I personally could not tell unless I was right on top of the deer. I would err on the side of caution and not shoot.

And that's the problem losthunter. In areas where hunters are trying to shoot females--and enough areas in TN like this exist--hunters WILL accidentally kill button bucks and small-antlered yearling bucks. I have to SERIOUSLY question anyone who says they can always distinguish them from adult females, especially at distance, and/or in low light, and/or through the woods. In fact, antlers can be very difficult to see in less than ideal conditions until they are longer than the ears. Time and again I've seen true professionals at identifying deer make that mistake. Anyone who shoots a lot of females WILL eventually make that mistake and the laws should provide for this, as they currently do. And currently, there doesn't appear to be a problem with excessive kills of either. Hunters are doing just fine if their holding button bucks kills to around 10% of all antlerless kills, and that's about where we're at in TN.

The fixation some members of Commission currently have with trying to prevent the kill of male deer is misplaced, and in my opinion, troubling.

 

[Deer Assassin]

according to many here internet check in facilitates illegal deer kills

here were have illegal kills being check in

:D

 

[Headhunter]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds. I have trouble distinguishing. Wonder how many people shot a buck guessing it was under 3 inches. I know I personally could not tell unless I was right on top of the deer. I would err on the side of caution and not shoot.

And that's the problem losthunter. In areas where hunters are trying to shoot females--and enough areas in TN like this exist--hunters WILL accidentally kill button bucks and small-antlered yearling bucks. I have to SERIOUSLY question anyone who says they can always distinguish them from adult females, especially at distance, and/or in low light, and/or through the woods. In fact, antlers can be very difficult to see in less than ideal conditions until they are longer than the ears. Time and again I've seen true professionals at identifying deer make that mistake. Anyone who shoots a lot of females WILL eventually make that mistake and the laws should provide for this, as they currently do. And currently, there doesn't appear to be a problem with excessive kills of either. Hunters are doing just fine if their holding button bucks kills to around 10% of all antlerless kills, and that's about where we're at in TN.

The fixation some members of Commission currently have with trying to prevent the kill of male deer is misplaced, and in my opinion, troubling.

I agree about button bucks, mistakes will happen, especially if you trying to kill large numbers of does, it happens.

I don't agree with they are just trying to prevent the kill of male deer. I believe they are trying to make sure laws are enforced.

 

[TboneD]

according to many here internet check in facilitates illegal deer kills

here were have illegal kills being check in

:D

Funny, yes, but it's only logical that the less enforcement tools there are, the less complying with the letter of the law. Right?

And perception adds to it. Think of it like this. We all fudge on the speed limit and get away with it because we know it's all good if we only go 5 or 10 over, whatever the case may be. But running a stop sign or red light is a big no no because it can obviously get folks killed. Well, think about our deer laws and the perceptions they create. For instance, assuming 100 days to the Unit L season, don't you think this might cross some folks (or poachers) mind: Does it really matter how and how many deer I kill if I can legally shoot 300 in a season? I know that wasn't your point, but it's just something I've thought about. But I know, lawbreakers aren't going to check in deer anyhow, no matter the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andy S.]

Good post and link, thanks Vermin93.

It will be interesting to see if that hunt is allowed to continue.

For many of us that hunt in unit L counties, we wouldn't care less if they never had this hunt again. If we want a doe, we have 90+ days to get one. Furthermore, the majority of hunters are burned out and not hunting much by the time this hunt rolls around. Another thing that makes it less desirable for me and others is the fact one has the chance of seeing a really nice buck, only to have to let him walk (assuming he/she is a law abiding hunter).

 

[BSK]

Good post and link, thanks Vermin93.

It will be interesting to see if that hunt is allowed to continue.

For many of us that hunt in unit L counties, we wouldn't care less if they never had this hunt again. If we want a doe, we have 90+ days to get one. Furthermore, the majority of hunters are burned out and not hunting much by the time this hunt rolls around. Another thing that makes it less desirable for me and others is the fact one has the chance of seeing a really nice buck, only to have to let him walk (assuming he/she is a law abiding hunter).

Completely agree. Personally, I'm done hunting long before January.

 

[Andy S.]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds.

I suggest shooting does in October and November when there are obvious differences in a fawn and adult doe. I have no sympathy for any hunter who chooses to only shoot does late in the year (Dec.15 on), but then complains because they accidentally shot a button buck. Another rule of thumb is to NEVER shoot an antlerless deer late in the year that is alone because there is a good chance it will be a button buck.

 

[Deer Assassin]

Good post and link, thanks Vermin93.

It will be interesting to see if that hunt is allowed to continue.

For many of us that hunt in unit L counties, we wouldn't care less if they never had this hunt again. If we want a doe, we have 90+ days to get one. Furthermore, the majority of hunters are burned out and not hunting much by the time this hunt rolls around. Another thing that makes it less desirable for me and others is the fact one has the chance of seeing a really nice buck, only to have to let him walk (assuming he/she is a law abiding hunter).

just to be the devils advocate


most hunters are burned out by early DEC but not all. True we have 90 days to kill a doe in unit L but IMO the reason for the 5 extras days is due to hunters do not kill enough does Period they just dont

I enjoyed the 5 extra days. Id rather hunt in jan with a gun than sept with a bow ( that is just me)

the only issue I have is 69 hunters need to be ticketed and fined if you cant tell it has over 3 inches and you dont have a tag you just dont shoot period

6 non unit l hunters need to be fined

i am sorry i have a dnag alabama high school edcuation and i can clearly read and understand the dang regs

it was an anterless dee hunt unit l private land
anterless deer is any deer less than 3 inches

it is not rocket science

 

[DRSJ35]

Seems like if anybody was trying to lie about it.They either would just check it in as a doe.Or just not check it in at all.

 

[muddyboots]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds.

I suggest shooting does in October and November when there are obvious differences in a fawn and adult doe. I have no sympathy for any hunter who chooses to only shoot does late in the year (Dec.15 on), but then complains because they accidentally shot a button buck. Another rule of thumb is to NEVER shoot an antlerless deer late in the year that is alone because there is a good chance it will be a button buck.

Andy is spot on. I have never mis identified a button as a doe. Good set of binos and make sure of ur shot. It's that simple.

 

[duckduck84]

I don't hunt anything but gun and I enjoyed the extra week. Got my last doe of the season that week. I didn't think the regs were hard to understand.

I know that I shot a button buck as one of my first two deer I killed this year, first ever, and I wasn't really happy I killed a button. It is definitely something that I had a hard time telling though. He was running around with 3 other does and about 100 yards away when I shot. Something I need to work on I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Headhunter]

How do you tell the difference in a button buck and a doe at 100 yds.

I suggest shooting does in October and November when there are obvious differences in a fawn and adult doe. I have no sympathy for any hunter who chooses to only shoot does late in the year (Dec.15 on), but then complains because they accidentally shot a button buck. Another rule of thumb is to NEVER shoot an antlerless deer late in the year that is alone because there is a good chance it will be a button buck.

Andy is spot on. I have never mis identified a button as a doe. Good set of binos and make sure of ur shot. It's that simple.

Absolutely no offense intended muddyboots, but if you shoot enough does and it can happen, to anyone, and has happened. Especially if you are shooting does at long range or first or last hours of daylight or in thick enough cover, heck even in a field in broad daylight. For the most part, I believe you can identify a button buck and avoid killing one, but it can happen and does happen to some of the best hunters there are, even using the absolute best optics and even with someone helping choose which deer should for sure be a doe.