Another CWD post

[RobbyW]

I saw a statement on another post that CWD might have caused hunters to stop hunting because they might not want to eat possible CWD deer. They then look at it being unethical to kill an animal they don't intend to eat.

From what I have read a big way to control CWD is lower deer density. So is it not more ethical to in fact hunt CWD zones more heavily? Thoughts?

 

[Andy S.]

A lot of hunters, including myself, are not driven to shoot/kill an animal just for the sake of killing it. For example, I like to shoot a doe with my bow, skin her out, and grill the loins on the grill that afternoon. If I exercise the caution that CDC recommends, that option is no longer available to me in Unit CWD. It takes a lot of the fun out of the experience when you have to wait 2-3 weeks to know if you can safely consume the deer you shot, killed, skinned and processed. Time is valuable and most of us do not have a lot of time to waste. The presence of CWD has definitely changed how many hunters operate in Unit CWD. My .02

 

[duckduck84]

A lot of hunters, including myself, are not driven to shoot/kill an animal just for the sake of killing it. For example, I like to shoot a doe with my bow, skin her out, and grill the loins on the grill that afternoon. If I exercise the caution that CDC recommends, that option is no longer available to me in Unit CWD. It takes a lot of the fun out of the experience when you have to wait 2-3 weeks to know if you can safely consume the deer you shot, killed, skinned and processed. Time is valuable and most of us do not have a lot of time to waste. The presence of CWD has definitely changed how many hunters operate in Unit CWD. My .02

While I don't do what you do with skinning and the loins (would love to, just never have!) I share that sentiment. I was pretty vocal last season about how CWD wouldn't keep me from hunting because of the low risk of actually contracting a disease like CJD in humans, but that I would follow recommendations. None of our deer last year tested positive even though we were right in the heart of the outbreak. I will hunt normally this year until one pops positive. If I start seeing a trend then I will definitely change the way I hunt. For me it is not worth it to kill a bunch of deer for meat that I won't be able to eat. Too much work involved in getting them to the processor for that. I also don't know that I have it in my heart to kill them just to kill them. I understand lowering density, but for me it goes against everything I was ever taught about hunting so I just don't know.

 

[woodsman04]

A lot of hunters, including myself, are not driven to shoot/kill an animal just for the sake of killing it. For example, I like to shoot a doe with my bow, skin her out, and grill the loins on the grill that afternoon. If I exercise the caution that CDC recommends, that option is no longer available to me in Unit CWD. It takes a lot of the fun out of the experience when you have to wait 2-3 weeks to know if you can safely consume the deer you shot, killed, skinned and processed. Time is valuable and most of us do not have a lot of time to waste. The presence of CWD has definitely changed how many hunters operate in Unit CWD. My .02

This for me. Not in the zone yet, but I will be in the next year to three I bet.


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[Doskil]

You shoot it, you eat it.

 

[Andy S.]

You shoot it, you eat it.

I like to know at least SOMEONE will eat it. We typically eat every deer I kill, or SOMEONE (neighbor, coworker, non-hunting friend, etc) ate it. I cannot in good conscience give deer away with all of the uncertainty that surrounds us now in Unit CWD.

 

[TheLBLman]

From what I have read a big way to control CWD is lower deer density.
So is it not more ethical to in fact hunt CWD zones more heavily? Thoughts?

YES! YES! YES!

It's just that ongoing deer densities are controlled most by the doe harvest
and have little to do with the buck harvest.

The rub is that (generally speaking) the more bucks hunters kill
the fewer doe they will kill (in any given year).

Most hunters have a "practical" limit as to just how many deer they are willing to kill in any given timeframe, such as a year.

Let's just make the hypothetical assumption that number is 3 deer annually (even though the actual number is undoubtedly fewer for most TN hunters).

Again, the ongoing deer density is controlled by the female deer numbers.

So, if a hunter kills 3 bucks early on, say starting with 1 in the "velvet" hunt,
how many female deer should we expect him to end up killing this year?

On the other hand, with "either-sex" deer regs, many hunters are likely to have their first deer or two annually be a doe.

This is part of why I believe the summertime buck-only "velvet" hunt is more harmful than beneficial
especially in the CWD zone.

Yes, someone will bring up the issue about taking out "older" bucks sooner, so that those bucks don't rut-range for a month in November.
But on the flip-side of this coin, what about all the yearling male fawns that will be born, acquire CWD by suckling their CWD-infected mother, then DISPERSE MILES FARTHER away FOREVER in a "new" area, compared to the typical rut-ranging older buck roaming for only a single month annually?

Often, killing more bucks equates to killing fewer doe,
and results in increasing deer density, with more & more DISPERSING young bucks,
providing more potential to spread CWD farther and quicker than rutting older bucks?

 

[Andy S.]

This is part of why I believe the summertime buck-only "velvet" hunt is more harmful than beneficial
especially in the CWD zone.

I do not think 61 bucks over 3 days is going to sway the majority's outlook and desire to kill ANY deer, when the entire Unit CWD typically kills 15-16k deer annually. We are still early in the game with CWD recently discovered on the landscape, so not sure if Unit CWD will continue to sustain those kill numbers over time, or not. I highly suspect the presence of CWD will be a bigger factor in future deer kills, compared to the 3 day velvet hunt.

 

[TheLBLman]

This is part of why I believe the summertime buck-only "velvet" hunt is more harmful than beneficial
especially in the CWD zone.

I do not think 61 bucks over 3 days is going to sway the majority's outlook and desire to kill ANY deer, when the entire Unit CWD typically kills 15-16k deer annually. . . . . . I highly suspect the presence of CWD will be a bigger factor in future deer kills, compared to the 3 day velvet hunt.

Andy, I agree with you here, but that doesn't change what I had stated in the previous post, as imo, the BUCK ONLY velvet hunt has been a step in the wrong direction for the reasons stated.

It is very true that 61 bucks in 3 days is a relatively small number,
but perhaps only because TWRA expectations were not met?

The expectations were for a much larger hunter participation,
but obviously, most TN deer hunters are not biting this hook?
Or haven't YET.
Many hunters have simply overlooked it,
but more will become aware as time progresses?

 

[duckduck84]

This is part of why I believe the summertime buck-only "velvet" hunt is more harmful than beneficial
especially in the CWD zone.

I do not think 61 bucks over 3 days is going to sway the majority's outlook and desire to kill ANY deer, when the entire Unit CWD typically kills 15-16k deer annually. . . . . . I highly suspect the presence of CWD will be a bigger factor in future deer kills, compared to the 3 day velvet hunt.

Andy, I agree with you here, but that doesn't change what I had stated in the previous post, as imo, the BUCK ONLY velvet hunt has been a step in the wrong direction for the reasons stated.

It is very true that 61 bucks in 3 days is a relatively small number,
but perhaps only because TWRA expectations were not met?

The expectations were for a much larger hunter participation,
but obviously, most TN deer hunters are not biting this hook?
Or haven't YET.
Many hunters have simply overlooked it,
but more will become aware as time progresses?

Like Andy, I live and hunt in CWD territory and I don't know hardly anyone who cares about the velvet hunt. I don't think it is being overlooked, just the opposite, I think people don't care to do it. It's too hot, too much hassle, and most people are just starting to think about deer season except for a few hardcore hunters. I will get out with a bow a few times in September and October, but I don't really hunt hard until rifle. Most people I know are similar. I just don't think the velvet hunt is going to have any major impact on anything.

 

[catman529]

There's definitely been some people scared of it or quit hunting altogether. I've seen it here and on Facebook groups. But I think the majority of hunters will still continue to hunt. The Facebook groups are still hopping.


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[Andy S.]

..... I think the majority of hunters will still continue to hunt.

Continuing to hunt is one thing, but will they continue to kill? Especially does? Myself and others still plan to hunt, but our outlook on killing (what, when, how many, etc) has definitely shifted since CWD was detected.

.....The Facebook groups are still hopping.

Not sure I would put much faith in FB groups representing the entire hunting community as a whole. That sounds comical at best to me.

 

[TheLBLman]

Like Andy, I live and hunt in CWD territory and I don't know hardly anyone who cares about the velvet hunt. I don't think it is being overlooked, just the opposite, I think people don't care to do it. It's too hot, too much hassle, and most people are just starting to think about deer season except for a few hardcore hunters.

. . . . . . . I don't really hunt hard until rifle.
Most people I know are similar.
I just don't think the velvet hunt is going to have any major impact on anything.

I agree with you . . . . . EXCEPT . . . . .
how will you feel if the "velvet" hunt is changed to "rifles allowed" STATEWIDE NEXT YEAR?

THAT appears to be where it's headed.
And, will the Saturday be a "free" hunting day, i.e. no license required?

 

[JeepKuntry]

I usually hunt Hardeman 1 weekend a year with family. I'm not killing anything that isn't a wall hanger. It's not worth the hassle to me.

 

[Andy S.]

I don't think it is being overlooked, just the opposite, I think people don't care to do it. It's too hot, too much hassle, and most people are just starting to think about deer season except for a few hardcore hunters.

Agree 100%. I text/talk/hangout with hunters daily, and the majority of them talked about the velvet hunt, but did not participate in the hunt. These hunters are primary in middle and west TN.

 

[swd]

My friends and I are planning to continue to hunt and have added 600 acres to our areas to hunt. We will continue to kill 3 does for each buck taken. I need at least 4 deer in the freezer to have the meat I need for the year.

I will follow the CDC recommendations and not eat meat from a positive deer, but it is going to break my heart to throw away meat.

The biggest change for me is waiting until the test results come back to eat the heart. Having it the following night for dinner was pretty special to me.

 

[catman529]

..... I think the majority of hunters will still continue to hunt.

Continuing to hunt is one thing, but will they continue to kill? Especially does? Myself and others still plan to hunt, but our outlook on killing (what, when, how many, etc) has definitely shifted since CWD was detected.

.....The Facebook groups are still hopping.

Not sure I would put much faith in FB groups representing the entire hunting community as a whole. That sounds comical at best to me.

I think they do represent the hunting community pretty dang well actually. Your or my circle of friends don't reflect the whole state's hunting population. Or TNDeer. But when you get over 60k people in a Facebook group, you see some of the real characters that share the woods with us and sometimes it's kind of scary. It's kind of like Walmart, it brings out all different kinds of people.


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[JCDEERMAN]

I like it. I would say only 1/4 of our guys hunted it this year compared to last year. Some had prior commitments and some it just didn't appeal to them. It seems this is the consensus around the state. For me, I like the opportunity and hope it continues.

We plan on logging and adding more food plots at the start of the year. This will allow us to have close to 30 acres of crop rotation - soybeans in spring and fall plots in the fall. If these were already established, I would have hunted twice as hard this year on the velvet hunt.

It's not that miserable (ESPECIALLY the temps we've had for each of these 2 hunts). I've only hunted the last 2.5 hours of daylight during both of the 3-day hunts. A thermacell and 2 frozen bottles of water and you're set.

 

[Andy S.]

..... I think the majority of hunters will still continue to hunt.

Continuing to hunt is one thing, but will they continue to kill? Especially does? Myself and others still plan to hunt, but our outlook on killing (what, when, how many, etc) has definitely shifted since CWD was detected.

.....The Facebook groups are still hopping.

Not sure I would put much faith in FB groups representing the entire hunting community as a whole. That sounds comical at best to me.

I think they do represent the hunting community pretty dang well actually. Your or my circle of friends don't reflect the whole state's hunting population. Or TNDeer. But when you get over 60k people in a Facebook group, you see some of the real characters that share the woods with us and sometimes it's kind of scary. It's kind of like Walmart, it brings out all different kinds of people.

Do you realize how MANY hunters are NOT on FB or any other form of social media? That is my point.

 

[catman529]

..... I think the majority of hunters will still continue to hunt.

Continuing to hunt is one thing, but will they continue to kill? Especially does? Myself and others still plan to hunt, but our outlook on killing (what, when, how many, etc) has definitely shifted since CWD was detected.

.....The Facebook groups are still hopping.

Not sure I would put much faith in FB groups representing the entire hunting community as a whole. That sounds comical at best to me.

I think they do represent the hunting community pretty dang well actually. Your or my circle of friends don't reflect the whole state's hunting population. Or TNDeer. But when you get over 60k people in a Facebook group, you see some of the real characters that share the woods with us and sometimes it's kind of scary. It's kind of like Walmart, it brings out all different kinds of people.

Do you realize how MANY hunters are NOT on FB or any other form of social media? That is my point.

it's not how many aren't. It's how many different kinds of hunters are and how it represents the general hunting population as a whole. You got weekend lease hunters, public land hunters, landowners, city hunters, mountain hunters, dumb hillbilly hunters, etc. It's a pretty good representation of Tennessee hunters as a whole. I'm guessing you're not on Facebook?


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[Andy S.]

^^^^ We'll just have to agree to disagree. Keep following FB, it has all of the answers.

 

[AT Hiker]

About the only data you can gather from Facebook is that white dudes account for most of the hunter demographics.

Anything past that gets muddied. Take politics for example, follow the various TN hunting pages and you would assume Democrats are the anti hunting party and the worse thing for wildlife...nothing could be further from the truth.


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[catman529]

^^^^ We'll just have to agree to disagree. Keep following FB, it has all of the answers.

if you were on the FB groups you might understand. I've seen everything from highly educated people like BigGameGuy (Daryl) to the most backwoods dumba** redneck who probably didn't make it past 3rd grade and can't spell. Gives you a pretty good idea of Tennessee deer hunters in general.


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[catman529]

About the only data you can gather from Facebook is that white dudes account for most of the hunter demographics.

Anything past that gets muddied. Take politics for example, follow the various TN hunting pages and you would assume Democrats are the anti hunting party and the worse thing for wildlife...nothing could be further from the truth.


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TWRA collects harvest data from checked-in deer. How many people don't check in their deer, or poach deer, and how many deer are killed by other means? Yet they still get a good chunk of data from harvest reports, and can get a pretty good idea on the deer herd based on that. Same applies to Facebook. You won't get every single hunter on there, but you get a good general idea.


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[Andy S.]

^^^^ We'll just have to agree to disagree. Keep following FB, it has all of the answers.

if you were on the FB groups you might understand. I've seen everything from highly educated people like BigGameGuy (Daryl) to the most backwoods dumba** redneck who probably didn't make it past 3rd grade and can't spell. Gives you a pretty good idea of Tennessee deer hunters in general.

Who said I wasn't on FB, and that I don't understand? Big assumption on your part.

 

[fairchaser]

Whether we eat the meat or not hunting is needed to manage the herd. We are conservationists as well as hunters. We have a responsibility to hunt if we care at all. If you decide not to hunt because you don't want to trouble with the meat, that's a poor excuse for shirking your responsibility as a hunter/conservationist. I was raised to eat what I killed but these are extenuating circumstances. We as hunters need to do what's necessary for the future of our children and grandchildren. I don't like it either but I'm going to adjust to the new normal whatever that is. I've bought my grandsons lifetime sportsman's licenses and I want them to have something to hunt.

 

[bowhunt25]

Fairchaser......….Changing direction here, how did you and Ames do on the CWD hunt ?

 

[AT Hiker]

TWRA collects harvest data from checked-in deer. How many people don't check in their deer, or poach deer, and how many deer are killed by other means? Yet they still get a good chunk of data from harvest reports, and can get a pretty good idea on the deer herd based on that. Same applies to Facebook. You won't get every single hunter on there, but you get a good general idea.

And if you would have agreed with Facebook, Hillary had the Presidency won[emoji14]

If your looking for some real data, it's available.
https://www2.census.gov/programs-survey ... 16-nat.pdf

I do agree with your sentiments about "sharing the woods with some characters". Facebook seems to attract some poor representatives of the hunting community. Kinda like reading the comments on a news link, the commentary is awesome but the IQ level of the commentaries is no way representative of the country.

As per the above link I provided. 11.5million hunters afield, 6.8million of them are 45 and older. Facebook is definitely a 45 and under thing. Could Facebook represent a average of hunter demographics? Probably, but you would have to survey them and not just take mental notes of the vocal minority.

Full circle back to CWD...if you read the TN hunting groups commentary about CWD it's a conspiracy the government came up with to get more money. Luckily, those posters do not represent most hunters.


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[catman529]

TWRA collects harvest data from checked-in deer. How many people don't check in their deer, or poach deer, and how many deer are killed by other means? Yet they still get a good chunk of data from harvest reports, and can get a pretty good idea on the deer herd based on that. Same applies to Facebook. You won't get every single hunter on there, but you get a good general idea.

And if you would have agreed with Facebook, Hillary had the Presidency won[emoji14]

If your looking for some real data, it's available.
https://www2.census.gov/programs-survey ... 16-nat.pdf

I do agree with your sentiments about "sharing the woods with some characters". Facebook seems to attract some poor representatives of the hunting community. Kinda like reading the comments on a news link, the commentary is awesome but the IQ level of the commentaries is no way representative of the country.

As per the above link I provided. 11.5million hunters afield, 6.8million of them are 45 and older. Facebook is definitely a 45 and under thing. Could Facebook represent a average of hunter demographics? Probably, but you would have to survey them and not just take mental notes of the vocal minority.

Full circle back to CWD...if you read the TN hunting groups commentary about CWD it's a conspiracy the government came up with to get more money. Luckily, those posters do not represent most hunters.


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Facebook is definitely not a 45 and under thing. I've been on FB since 2008 and I've seen it gravitate toward older age classes over the years. Some of the dumber people I've seen on TDH were old gray bearded dudes who were set in their ways but obviously never learned a thing about deer biology or regulations and would argue with more educated people in the group.


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[AT Hiker]

Facebook is definitely not a 45 and under thing. I've been on FB since 2008 and I've seen it gravitate toward older age classes over the years. Some of the dumber people I've seen on TDH were old gray bearded dudes who were set in their ways but obviously never learned a thing about deer biology or regulations and would argue with more educated people in the group.


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I think you missed my point. It being, most hunters are 45 and up and most facebook users are younger than that.


But yeah, I get a absolute kick out of reading the comments when the people you describe argue with absolutely no validity to their statements.

Still, my favorite is when someone unintentionally tells on themselves when they break a law [emoji23]