I am not sure I see the issue with using decoys. We(hunters) use decoys for deer, duck, dove...about anything else that is hunted. Why not turkeys too? Have there been studies that show using decoys is a significant issue with turkey populations? There may be, I don't know. I tried to use a fan(from a taken bird) to approach a group in a field last year. Didn't get anywhere close to them. I almost never use decoys because I have never had success when using one. But I am not following the logic of banning them just because it makes it easier to harvest a bird. The harvest limits of each state should take care of protecting the populations. If they are not then the harvest limit should be addressed. That is something to take up with your state's wildlife organization(TWRA here in TN).
Alabama leading the way
- Thread starter Setterman
- Start date
I have hunted both with decoys and without. I haven't noticed any big advantage to decoys, especially in woods. Similar to deer hunting, the only time I have seen decoys work well is in a large field with decoys placed such that they can be seen at long distances. I have never used a strutter or a fan though, usually a lone hen or maybe a hen plus a jake.
I can't help but wonder if people opposed to decoys are making assumptions about their effectiveness that aren't quite true.
I can't help but wonder if people opposed to decoys are making assumptions about their effectiveness that aren't quite true.
poorhunter
Well-Known Member
Without decoy use I would suggest that at a minimum 50% more gobblers would live through the first two weeks of the season. I know that harvest totals aren't showing it, but there are a LOT less turkeys in Tennessee than there were 6-7 years ago. What's happening is that even though we are basically killing the same number of birds we are killing a greater percentage of the that are birds available to kill. The left overs are diminishing each year and all the sudden you have something drastic happen like disease or bad hatch and you now have next to nothing to hunt for a few years. Next thing you know you are in bobwhite quail territory.
Andy said it well earlier about decoys.
Andy said it well earlier about decoys.
Granddaddy
Well-Known Member
Decoys definitely provide an advantage for field birds. Would also like to see the fall seasons in the south eliminated entirely by the various states.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Couldn't have said it any better. This is the best explanation for what's happening, imo
I would say way more birds are taken by hunters sitting in a blind with corn out. Even though it is illegal it still happens
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
If you want to see how idiotproof full strut decoys are when moving combined with gobbler whines and fighting purrs, just watch the Culpepper dude on YouTube. He's a Michael Waddell protégé, and Michael thinks he's the greatest turkey hunter of all time.
His first 3 or 4 episodes this season have been in south Florida private ranches, and he has killed a pile of birds in open fields reaping them. His basic strategy is get fairly close in the dark, let them fly down, then crawl to them with a strutted decoy in his face until the tom sees him. When the tom first spots his movement, he shakes the decoy and does some fighting whines, then the tom folds up and charges right in. Sometimes they shoot them at 20y, sometimes the shoot them at 6 or 7 steps. Usually the hens and jakes are standing around spectating wondering what just happened, and don't even leave till the crew gets up cheering at their amazing skills.
Sad thing is, he's probably a decent caller and may have decent woodsmanship skills, but he never uses them because the hunt is over as soon as they find a tom. It's like watching a movie that you've already seen the ending.
Now staked decoys are a different thing. Still a huge advantage, but nothing like reaping with a strutter.
His first 3 or 4 episodes this season have been in south Florida private ranches, and he has killed a pile of birds in open fields reaping them. His basic strategy is get fairly close in the dark, let them fly down, then crawl to them with a strutted decoy in his face until the tom sees him. When the tom first spots his movement, he shakes the decoy and does some fighting whines, then the tom folds up and charges right in. Sometimes they shoot them at 20y, sometimes the shoot them at 6 or 7 steps. Usually the hens and jakes are standing around spectating wondering what just happened, and don't even leave till the crew gets up cheering at their amazing skills.
Sad thing is, he's probably a decent caller and may have decent woodsmanship skills, but he never uses them because the hunt is over as soon as they find a tom. It's like watching a movie that you've already seen the ending.
Now staked decoys are a different thing. Still a huge advantage, but nothing like reaping with a strutter.
Setterman
Well-Known Member
The advent of the strutter decoys, HD jakes has been the demise of thousands upon thousands of dominant gobblers early season each year that would normally survive to breed their harem. There is absolutely no way to deny this. These birds would survive for most of the season without the aid and crutch of decoys. By the time they're vulnerable most hunters have hung it up, or all the hens are bred.
I feel that the pecking order is so well established when the season opens that many hens are going unbred because the dominant bird is dead. This leaves gaps in recruitment hurting the future population
The decoy stuff allows the biggest googans out there to waddle into a pasture stake a decoy out where it's visible and wait for the dominant bird to see it. When he does boom he dies with zero effort
Anyone comparing turkeys to deer/ducks/dove whatever else species immediately loses credibility.
as far as baiting with corn, it's illegal and been illegal. No way to make it anymore illegal.
I've been beating this drum for years. Outlaw the decoys and you'll save 50% more gobblers each season. Outlaw the decoys now. Outlaw the decoys forever.
I feel that the pecking order is so well established when the season opens that many hens are going unbred because the dominant bird is dead. This leaves gaps in recruitment hurting the future population
The decoy stuff allows the biggest googans out there to waddle into a pasture stake a decoy out where it's visible and wait for the dominant bird to see it. When he does boom he dies with zero effort
Anyone comparing turkeys to deer/ducks/dove whatever else species immediately loses credibility.
as far as baiting with corn, it's illegal and been illegal. No way to make it anymore illegal.
I've been beating this drum for years. Outlaw the decoys and you'll save 50% more gobblers each season. Outlaw the decoys now. Outlaw the decoys forever.
Would you be opposed to planting a food plot, setting up a tree stand and waiting on a mature buck to show?
Setterman
Well-Known Member
See my comment above about comparing species....
you have fallen into that category
but to humor you and your question. I don't deer hunt any longer. I was blessed to kill a bunch of huge deer over the years and just got bored with it. I quit about 5 years ago. I don't miss it
Boll Weevil
Well-Known Member
I used to enjoy watching a turkey hunt on tv or video and remember the older ones by Knight & Hale, Primos, Bob Walker, Preston Pitman, even the Drury's were tolerable then. To me it was yet another a chance to observe wild turkey behavior, see new country through other's hunts, and maybe add/tweak a tactic in my own bag of tricks.
I'm almost embarrassed to be a turkey hunter when reading what mega mentions above. It's a shame this is what passes as turkey hunting.
I'm almost embarrassed to be a turkey hunter when reading what mega mentions above. It's a shame this is what passes as turkey hunting.
Hookem
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2016
- Messages
- 52
Seems to me you simply regulate the number of Toms that can be taken and you control the turkey population. I used to hunt turkeys more, with and without decoys, but they have become so abundant in numbers it stopped being hard to kill one so it became less interesting to me. I am not big on more TWRA regulations but do believe we need to take heed of what other states we share borders with are doing and stay up on what science is telling us.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Yep! And one of the main reasons I ditched the big cable and went with some streaming services. I can actually learn and pick up a few things here and there from DIY guys that aren't, nor do they want to be, celebrities. I remember meeting Harold Knight when I was young and it was one of my most memorable moments ever being a hunter. My dad bought a call from him, he tweeked it, signed it for me and I still carry it to this day. His message he left me on the call is fading. Those times and folks seem to be a thing of the past.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
I actually exchanged several emails with Dr. Chamberlain last year before the TN's commission meeting setting seasons for the next two years. He was uncommonly responsive, friendly, and helpful. He told me directly that he would love the opportunity to give a presentation to the TN commission, he would do it at no cost to the state even for travel and boarding, and he has a presentation already prepared that he has given for various state wildlife boards/commissions that has been very well received. All he needed was an invitation and he would be there, or he would do it via zoom given the covid situation. Apparently the TN Commission previously worked with him as a consultant, but they had not contacted him since the previous Wild Turkey Program Coordinator took over (before Shields)
Then I contacted my district commissioner (Box) who was completely on board. Then I called Chairman Holbert who was anything but on board. He openly opposed the idea, told me that not everyone agrees with Chamberlains theories (emphasizing that "they are just theories")—including UT biologist Craig Harper who is overseeing the middle TN study— and he reminded me that turkeys many places are doing fine, including his farms around Decatur County. Side note—Harper is well respected but he is most notably a deer biologist.
I acknowledged that there can be professional disagreement about best management practices, but wouldn't it be better for the commissioners to hear both sides before making a big decision at a critical time for wild turkeys—especially when the presentation would come from one of, if not the, leading authorities in the world, and would be offered FOR FREE? We ended the call with him reluctantly saying that he would invite Chamberlain to give the presentation if a majority of Commissioners wanted to do it.
Then I sent a group email to all of the commissioners explaining Chamberlain's willingness to give the presentation, and Holbert's "agreement" to invite him if a majority wanted to.
I wasn't copied on whatever internal discussions followed, but they never invited Chamberlain. Unofficially, it is my understanding that they didn't want to bring in an outside voice that would disagree with Harper's opinions since they have spent millions of dollars on this middle TN study with Harper at the helm. Personally, I think if Harper already has preconceived opinions that are in such need of protection, he shouldn't be leading the study. But I digress.
Ultimately, the commission made the conscious decision to proceed with less information rather than receiving more information from an exceptionally qualified source. Above all else (including turkeys themselves) protect the study.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Good for you! I applaud your efforts in this. Agreed - why not hear BOTH sides and the difference of opinion? It's all politics. I have a LOT of respect for Dr. Harper, but agree, he is more focused and knowledgeable on deer. Maybe our best efforts are wen this "study" is completed.
All species that are hunted can be compared, one so wise as to claim otherwise doesn't want to be proven wrong. Not to be misinterpreted, I support trying to keep turkey numbers at a certain level and applaud you for having the same goal, however, to claim "googans" or anyone you deem to be a less talented hunter than you because they use decoys is the cause of the problem seems to be quite narcissistic.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
I assume you have squirrel hunted and deer hunted with a rifle. So applying your logic, we should also hunt turkeys with rifles.
So, tell me what my logic was?
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
I think it's obvious, but I'll play along.
You argument was that all game species are comparable.
We hunt other species a particular way, so people shouldn't criticize the application of those tactics to other species.
So I'm curious where you stand on shooting turkeys with a .270?
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Setterman
Well-Known Member
If we are comparing species and hunting as the same. I assume you support rifles for killing turkeys? In most states baiting deer is legal, so I guess you support that for turkeys? Heck, your shoot coons out of trees at night with aid of a light, ready for a Turkey roost shoot because that's legal?
See the flaws in your logic? You can't pick and choose if we are going to compare everything.
yes the hunter who stakes a strutter in a field, crawls in a blind with no call, and shoots a Turkey that runs in is a 100% googan to me. I am admitting I look down on them, and am embarrassed they are considered Turkey hunters like me or other hunters who hunt traditionally.
woodsman04
Well-Known Member
Some people just will never understand.
I don't argue with the group with shut ears. I try to explain to those that want to listen.
Get rid of the decoys the turkey population rebounds. It all makes too much sense.
If you have a bad hatch or two, you still have three and four year old gobblers to hunt and do the breeding.
Comparing species to species hunting styles and tactics is impossible. Every animal is hunted differently for fair chase and sport.
Deer should be scouted and set up on according to wind directions and such. I don't think it's too hard to sit in a shooting house in a big food plot and snipe them.
Squirrel hunting is usually done with dogs or still hunting.
Quail hunting done with dogs.
rabbits and dogs.
Doves are shot as they fly over a field that was prepped by you or another person or farm.
Ducks are called in to work into a decoy spread. Any googan can go and sit on the edge of someone else's duck set ups and shoot the fly by ducks and swing shoot and sky bust. Legal yes. Sporting hell no.
Turkeys are meant to be called up to within 45 yards and shot in the head with a shot gun. Fooling him at his own game. His game is to gobble and strut to attract hens. His game is to also fight off intruder gobblers. Hence too easy to stick a male decoy in a cow pasture.
Anyone that hunts turkeys with the decoys strategy truly looses the unique experience of calling up a gobbling bird. It cheapens the turkey. It lessens their splendor and awe.
While I'm at it, I'm also a dedicated fall turkey hunter. Those that despise or think it's too easy have never done it like I have. True fall hunting isn't sitting around and waiting to shoot a flock that walks by you. It's intense scouting in big hardwoods. Listening even more than the spring. Walking more than in the spring. Find some birds and do the best you can to scatter them every direction. Wait several minutes and try to call one back up. Same calling technique used in spring, set up where he's in range when you see him. But my fall hunting is gobblers only. Anyone that would shoot a hen on purpose should not be hunting turkeys.
I'm extremely protective and selfish with turkeys. If you do it right, and truly enjoy pursuing the wild turkey and do everything you can to promote more turkeys I'll help you out and be happy for you as much or more than I am myself.
To those that just shoot and hunt them because they can, or that brag about crawling and using fans and decoys, then I'll always thing you don't deserve that bird.
I don't argue with the group with shut ears. I try to explain to those that want to listen.
Get rid of the decoys the turkey population rebounds. It all makes too much sense.
If you have a bad hatch or two, you still have three and four year old gobblers to hunt and do the breeding.
Comparing species to species hunting styles and tactics is impossible. Every animal is hunted differently for fair chase and sport.
Deer should be scouted and set up on according to wind directions and such. I don't think it's too hard to sit in a shooting house in a big food plot and snipe them.
Squirrel hunting is usually done with dogs or still hunting.
Quail hunting done with dogs.
rabbits and dogs.
Doves are shot as they fly over a field that was prepped by you or another person or farm.
Ducks are called in to work into a decoy spread. Any googan can go and sit on the edge of someone else's duck set ups and shoot the fly by ducks and swing shoot and sky bust. Legal yes. Sporting hell no.
Turkeys are meant to be called up to within 45 yards and shot in the head with a shot gun. Fooling him at his own game. His game is to gobble and strut to attract hens. His game is to also fight off intruder gobblers. Hence too easy to stick a male decoy in a cow pasture.
Anyone that hunts turkeys with the decoys strategy truly looses the unique experience of calling up a gobbling bird. It cheapens the turkey. It lessens their splendor and awe.
While I'm at it, I'm also a dedicated fall turkey hunter. Those that despise or think it's too easy have never done it like I have. True fall hunting isn't sitting around and waiting to shoot a flock that walks by you. It's intense scouting in big hardwoods. Listening even more than the spring. Walking more than in the spring. Find some birds and do the best you can to scatter them every direction. Wait several minutes and try to call one back up. Same calling technique used in spring, set up where he's in range when you see him. But my fall hunting is gobblers only. Anyone that would shoot a hen on purpose should not be hunting turkeys.
I'm extremely protective and selfish with turkeys. If you do it right, and truly enjoy pursuing the wild turkey and do everything you can to promote more turkeys I'll help you out and be happy for you as much or more than I am myself.
To those that just shoot and hunt them because they can, or that brag about crawling and using fans and decoys, then I'll always thing you don't deserve that bird.
I too will play along, In a thread about using decoys to harvest turkeys there was never a mention about using rifles to kill turkeys, your inability to comprehend should have been considered on my behalf, for that I apologize. To me( important two words) there is no difference in hunting a deer over a food plot than hunting a turkey over a decoy; both used to lure said species within range of the legal weapon.
Your logic is similar to the logic used by liberals to turn words into something other than their intent. I think we can always find similarities between methods used to lure a species within range of the legal weapon. However, some folks just prefer to argue.
I simply hunt for meat. The fact that I get to peruse the woods instead of a grocery store is an added bonus. In pursuit of meat I desire the most expedient legal means. If decoys are legal and they increase my chances of having a more full freezer, then I am using decoys. I also recognize that the meat I'm after is a limited resource. I trust biologists to inform decision makers on how best to protect said resource. If that means they make decoys illegal, then I stop using decoys. Its all rather simple and impersonal to me. I'm a terrible caller, mediocre woodsman and 100% googan...but I can sure make good smoked buffalo turkey sandwiches...
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
At times like these I'm reminded that some people recognize irony and others don't.
Southern Sportsman
Well-Known Member
Well said
That is part of the problem. Many times over, and several very recent, the decision makers do not listen to, or align with the biologists who spend the time in the field, study the wildlife, and know the resource as good as any. This is why public feedback in February right before season setting Commission meeting is invaluable. Face to face feedback at the Commission meeting seems to carry the most weight, but it is also the least convenient and least likely to happen for most working class hunters/conservationists.
If yall yall want to protect turkeys stop hunting them for a few years .
