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Aging turkeys

Do you still believe spurs are relatively accurate indicators of age?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 63.6%

  • No

    Votes: 12 36.4%
  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
Spurhunter

Spurhunter

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Dr. Michael Chamberlain says he has studied known age gobblers, and there is NO correlation between spur length and age. He says when aging gobblers the only thing you can tell for sure is that it's a juvenile or adult. Yet, almost every hunter I've ever heard believes spurs are absolutely indicators of age. Do you still believe spurs are relatively accurate indicators of age?
 
Southern Sportsman said:
I still call turkeys with 3/4" spur 2 yr olds, and if I kill one with 1 1/4"+ I consider him more than 2 years old. Beyond that, no.
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I agree... those birds with 3/4" dull spurs are younger IMO than the 1 1/4" sharp spurred birds... now if that means 2 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 year old birds, I can't be certain... but to say there is "NO" correlation I highly doubt those two birds are the same age or the 3/4" bird is older...
My bother in-law had 3 wild gobblers for several years and you could definitely tell the difference between their spur length between the 2nd and 3rd year.
 
I know Chamberlain said they have documented known-age 2 year olds with 1 1/4" spurs, but I have to believe that is an exception.

I suspect it's like deer. Any biologist will tell you that you can't accurately age them based on antlers. But you can safely say that 140" buck isn't 1.5, and a thin antlered 6" spike isn't a 5.5 year old deer.
 
I believe a male with 1/2" spur bumps on his legs and longer middle tail feathers is close to a year old bird in the spring (jake). I believe a bird fully formed featherwise and body wise with 3/4" dull spurs is close to 2 years old in the spring. I think It gets more inaccurate after this but, 1" sharp spurs IMO is probably a 3yr old with all things being equal. After that it's a crap shoot. I really like spurs and hope for 1" plus spurs on the ones I kill. But, those mouthy aggressive 2 year olds (3/4" spurs) are a lot of fun.
 
An older man I know has a turkey mounted in his cabin. If you showed the spurs to 100 turkey hunters, 95 would tell you he's a classic 3 yr old. Maybe a smidge over 1" and well pointed but not remarkably sharp. Fairly average in most respects. But he was banded. Killed in Haywood county —1998. Banded as a jake in 1989. A verified 10 year old turkey.
 
Short spurs have no correlation with age. Turkeys commonly break off a spur (or spurs) and then start all over and regrow it, just like humans losing a fingernail.

Long spurs do correlate with a combination of an older bird that does not use his spurs as often, however it isn't a measurable correlation (ie, a 3 yo has 1 1/8in, a 4 yr old has 1 3/8, and a 5yo has 1 1/2.).

Spur length at the time of kill is due to a combination of age, genetics, and wear and tear usage.
 
As others eluded to, a general idea of age for most birds killed, but no where near an exact science as so many hunters want to believe. Several graduate level studies have eluded to this even before Chamberlain came on to the scene. I share this recently harvested Floriday turkey (Osceola, or Hybrid) as an example. Most would call him a 2 year old, maybe 3. He was banded as an adult bird (2+) six years ago, so he is at least 8 years old. I highly suspect his spurs seen in the pic below are nearly identical to when he was banded in 2015. As we all know, each bird is case by case, and I suspect habitat and geography can play a role in spur length.

spur3.jpg


spur2.jpg

spur1.jpg
 
Seems like this Chamberlain feller is supposed to be the new Lovett Williams of Turkey biology. I knew Mr. Lovett Williams and this man can't hold a candle to 'em. After listening to him talk a few times, I have concluded that he is pretty much a kook. ;)
 
cowhunter71 said:
Seems like this Chamberlain feller is supposed to be the new Lovett Williams of Turkey biology. I knew Mr. Lovett Williams and this man can't hold a candle to 'em. After listening to him talk a few times, I have concluded that he is pretty much a kook. ;)
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hahaha so one of the most respected biologists in his field by people in his field is a kook. Got it
 
I think one of the implications of this is that more of the living Toms have been older than thought.

That also suggests we've been progressively killing a higher percentage of them each year?

The higher 2020 turkey kill may have been a combination of more hunting, and still having more Toms born years earlier than thought. Seems we're close to the "harvest" dropping like a rock? Poult production/survival already has.
 
Southern Sportsman said:
An older man I know has a turkey mounted in his cabin. If you showed the spurs to 100 turkey hunters, 95 would tell you he's a classic 3 yr old. Maybe a smidge over 1" and well pointed but not remarkably sharp. Fairly average in most respects. But he was banded. Killed in Haywood county —1998. Banded as a jake in 1989. A verified 10 year old turkey.
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That's incredible
 
Southern Sportsman said:
I know Chamberlain said they have documented known-age 2 year olds with 1 1/4" spurs, but I have to believe that is an exception.

I suspect it's like deer. Any biologist will tell you that you can't accurately age them based on antlers. But you can safely say that 140" buck isn't 1.5, and a thin antlered 6" spike isn't a 5.5 year old deer.
Click to expand...

I pretty much believe this. A good chance your 1-1/4" spurred gobbler is 3+, and your Blunt 3/4" spurs are two year olds.
Spurs grow constantly, just like beards. I assume environment, genetics, nutrition, and may be just random happenstance controls it.
 
I age them by spur length only, as long as their an adult as far as feathers are concerned.
I know what chamberlain says. He's probably right. But just for my own fun I age them, always have and always will. (Regardless if it's right or not it's just me)

My personal way...
Jakes=nub Spurs, usually not exceeding 1/2"
2 year old=usually blunt with no curve. Between 1/2" to 7/8"
3 year old =usually curved and pointed, 1" to 1-1/4".
4 year old =very curved and very sharp, 1-1/4"+
5 year old=extremely sharp and curved, and if you throw it over your shoulder wrong you'll gash the flesh between your thumb and index finger. 1-1/2"+

Again, this isn't scientific at all and I admit that. It's just my way that I do myself. Its somewhat like having a big imagination as a kid.
 
cowhunter71 said:
Seems like this Chamberlain feller is supposed to be the new Lovett Williams of Turkey biology. I knew Mr. Lovett Williams and this man can't hold a candle to 'em. After listening to him talk a few times, I have concluded that he is pretty much a kook. ;)
Click to expand...
A well respected turkey biologist that has dedicated decades to studying, banding, GPS tracking, and researching everything related to Eastern Wild Turkeys is a kook because he doesn't agree with your notions. Yeah, all his research is probably wrong. Matter of fact, we should probably throw ALL turkey research out the window and just believe the opinions of a turkey LEGEND, even if it's only in his own mind. 🤣
 
woodsman04 said:
I age them by spur length only, as long as their an adult as far as feathers are concerned.
I know what chamberlain says. He's probably right. But just for my own fun I age them, always have and always will. (Regardless if it's right or not it's just me)

My personal way...
Jakes=nub Spurs, usually not exceeding 1/2"
2 year old=usually blunt with no curve. Between 1/2" to 7/8"
3 year old =usually curved and pointed, 1" to 1-1/4".
4 year old =very curved and very sharp, 1-1/4"+
5 year old=extremely sharp and curved, and if you throw it over your shoulder wrong you'll gash the flesh between your thumb and index finger. 1-1/2"+

Again, this isn't scientific at all and I admit that. It's just my way that I do myself. Its somewhat like having a big imagination as a kid.
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Great post. This is similar to what we've all been taught, I would assume. You admit that it may not be scientific and may be contrary to Dr. Chamberlain's research, but you still enjoy doing it this way. I would say most of us will always think of it this way because it's ingrained in us. Old habits are hard to break.
 
Other indicators of age are their wariness, throatiness of their gobble, pecking order within the group and overall weight. These things when compared to spur length provide an overall picture of a birds age.
 
cowhunter71 said:
Seems like this Chamberlain feller is supposed to be the new Lovett Williams of Turkey biology. I knew Mr. Lovett Williams and this man can't hold a candle to 'em. After listening to him talk a few times, I have concluded that he is pretty much a kook. ;)
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I may regret asking, but my curiosity won out.

What aspects of Chamberlain's beliefs do you find kooky?
 

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