Accuracy issues with my Traditions Vortex Striker Fire

[iowavf]

No its not within max. Traditions 150gr max is for real black only. Says so right in the manual. A 3 pellet load makes far more peak pressure than even 120grV of BH209 or 150gr of real black.

Ok look down the list of BH about 3/4 down where it says 120gr of BH, that's equal to 150gr of 777 pellets, not loose, but 3 777 pellets.

 

[Omega]

There has been in a bunch of discussions about "max" loads, and how mfgs write that. The red warning does not specify which type of powder, real black or subs, though the load data never recommends above 100 grs., of anything. But some, specially out west are using 150 grains with the barnes for elk and blacktails. I don't go above 100 myself, not only because I don't think my shoulder can take it, but because I have found that 100 grains gives me pretty good accuracy at 100 yds, and I never need to shoot beyond that. I have only tried 90 grains in BH209, and 100 in 777, so don't know how stout a 150 grain shot would be in those, but have used pyrodex and goex at 150 grains some time back.

 

[GMB54]

NEVER EXCEED in red is perfectly clear and Hodgdon has never listed a max load over 100gr for 45cal or 50cal. Not sure how that is hard to understand. The Strikefire has a very light contour barrel.

No where in that manual is there an approved load for 150gr of ANY sub, only real black powder.

 

[GMB54]

No its not within max. Traditions 150gr max is for real black only. Says so right in the manual. A 3 pellet load makes far more peak pressure than even 120grV of BH209 or 150gr of real black.

Ok look down the list of BH about 3/4 down where it says 120gr of BH, that's equal to 150gr of 777 pellets, not loose, but 3 777 pellets.

Please tell me how that is equal in pressure...i would love to hear it and see the proof. The fact is 3 pellets easily makes 30kpsi or more in a 50cal with a sabot. You wont make that much peak with 120gr of BH209 even with a 350gr bullet in a sabotless 45cal. Peak in a 50cal with a sabot will be quite a bit less.

350gr in a Swinglock full formed

 

[iowavf]

Read up on Black Horn and loose 777 because they are both about 20% hotter than what the 777 50gr pellets are made from. The 777 star pellets seem to be pretty equal when comparing to loose 777 or BH, but they also weigh less than a regular 777 pellet. 120 gr of BH has more velocity and energy versus 3 777 pellets.

 

[GMB54]

3 Firestars weigh 12gr more than 2 Triple7 pellets so yes its gunna make more speed. Same composition just a new shape. 3 Firestars is the new approved load by Hodgdon. You could spend a bit less and run 2 T7 Mag pellets. That is also an approved load by Hodgdon and therefore within the max in the manual. Traditions took the high road by putting that burden on the powder manufactures.

BH209 makes similar speed but it makes less peak pressure than 3 T7 pellets. Just like i could use N110 vs 4759 to get similar speed but the N110 will make a higher peak using less powder by weight. Ive shot a heckuva lot of BH209 so when i hear "it worked then but not now".....Something aint right. There is another problem that has been missed or something changed. BH209 dont go bad when stored properly. Its a nitrate ester based powder similar to smokeless.

 

[Devin2009]

So your solution was to use a load that exceeds Traditions load data?
https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/...ek StrikerFire Manual FIT-58 7-13 (Final).pdf

Im stumped as to why yours is having problems with BH209 if the plug is clean and you used a mag primer. Unless you have a really loose bore which would be uncommon for a Traditions...The TEZ sabot should be tight enough. If it worked before what has changed? Something in the equation is missing.

The more I've studied than thought about my issue, I'm came to the conclusion that the breech plug is not made to effectively use bh209. The plug has a flat surface on the back while most bh209 capable plugs have a bowl type indention.
The bore is far from being loose.
I am still puzzled why it worked last year when the gun was new. Since I've switched to pellets the gun is shooting perfect with ZERO hang fires unlike when I was using bh209 4 out of 5 shots was a pop booom.

My question is, if I am overloading the gun by shooting 3 777 pellets, why is most everyone else shooting the same load? I want the most velocity as possible and the extra range while being effective and accurate like I've achieved with this load. Most shots I will have should be within 100 yards but I do have a couple places where I could shoot 200 or so yards and I want to be able to do so, being I paid as much money for a gun that is supposed to be capable of it. If I was just wanting to limit myself to 100 yards or less my old Knight American would be perfect.

 

[GMB54]

I would not be concerned about if others are shooting it. I would be concerned about if Traditions approves of the load. Its not hard for a 3 pellet load to climb to 35kpsi+ if pellets get crushed while loading. You can get close to the same speed from 120gr of loose Triple7 and at one time Traditions did approve that load but in heavier contour models like the older Pursuit.

Newer models are not rated the same as the older ones. That is likely why people are overloading the new ones. Calling and asking Traditions should be simple and get it in an email too if they say its ok. 150gr of real black is not the same as 150gr of a sub. Just like 50gr of 4198 is not the same as 50gr of N120.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Do you think the o ring gasket on the breech plug would have anything to do with it? Mine was in terrible shape after very few shots. I replaced it.


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[GMB54]

Possibly, lots of guys use the O-ring in the primer pocket to help seal the primer. The problem as i see it is Traditions uses an alloy frame with no steel firing pin bushing. The frame wears in that area. Ive seen it. Making a primer tight against the alloy frame just speeds up that wear and tear. The factory o-ring on the other end shouldn't be a major factor other than more fouling in the threads...You can probably buy new o-rings for the powder side cheap at most good hardware stores.

CVAs on the other hand have a steel bushing in the alloy frame. The primer hardly phases it. Some of the newest Traditions have a bushing/plate for the firing pin but im not sure what its made of.

The Traditions plug is certainly not ideal for BH209 but the majority of posters on MML seem to have no issues igniting it.. A small mod to the plug should make it much better. Ron on Modern Muzzle Loader forum was doing the mod for about $20 or so. He did many older and OEM CVA plugs.

 

[FrontierGander]

Replace the breech plug. Could be shot out and now is causing poor accuracy.

Did you run a 1/8" drill bit down the breech plugs flash channel cut cut out the carbon build up?


On ours we installed a metric o ring into the plugs primer pocket and used nothing but cci 209 magnum primers. Every other primer however worked just as good. I had more cci's on hand, so they always get the nod.



https://www.mcmaster.com/9262k611

2 different deer

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I shot a new load in mine this weekend that grouped well. 230 gr Lehigh Defense CF bullet in a Harvester Crush Rib with 90 gr 777. Just FYI for anyone researching


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[RLH]

I got it figured out! Bh 209 was still hang firing after switching primers deep cleaning the breech plug and backing off on the charge volume. So I switched to 3 50 grain 777 pellets and used a Barnes 250 grain tez bullet. I had to adjust my scope just a little bit to get perfect where I wanted it. The last 2 shots are the 2 close together about 2 inches high. I was shooting 100 yards so I'm pleased with the performance of this combo.

Thanks to everyone's input and suggestions!

Are you shooting at the side of your building?