2023 Agenda

[Deck78]

Fingers crossed this is the year we actually make progress on the farm. We have owned it for several years now and have struggled to get a logger willing to work with us to cut pines. We have a pretty large tract and when our property was clear cut of the hardwoods in the late 90s it was poorly replanted in pines and we have a complete mess at our place.

There are a ton of underperforming white oaks trying to emerge between densely populated pines leaving us with a ton of favorable bedding, great future hardwoods but not enough habitat diversity under the mature pine canopy. A high percentage of our surrounding neighbors have mature hardwoods which keeps deer moving on and off our place at a constant rate and we don't have more than about 30 ac in sporadic mast producers spread throughout our place.

Met with a logger last month and he thinks that he is game to come in and start cutting in February. Not sure if this will pan out but it sure would be awesome to start getting these pines chopped and dropped.

If we don't get lucky with the logger then we will be working to enlarge the legacy food plots and clear a few small pockets in some identified high traffic corridors for a few more ladder stands. We will also be working on improving the TVA line that runs on our place.

Sounds like a lot of ya'll have some killer plans this year. Can't wait to see the improvements.

 

[Ski]

Good luck with the logger! And I agree on seeing everyone's progress. Hopefully everybody shares pics!

 

[Outdoor Enthusiast]

I started on the biggest task this past weekend by getting posts set for my elevated shooting house. I also cut some trees to clear some shooting lanes.

Planning to get some clover for frost seeding this weekend.

 

[DeerCamp]

I also have a pile of does, I've seen as many as 15 in my plot at once, killed one this morning, but I hate shooting them, I feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot.

You're not, I promise. Don't go nuts obviously, but you don't want a doe factory. Bucks absolutely will avoid a heavily populated area with does, except for the rut, in which case you have so many does he doesn't have to look hard.

 

[DeerCamp]

It's typically this time of year I can't wait for deer season to be over to get started on our projects….and you aren't helping my patience DR

I keep getting maps out and color-coding them for TSI and burning projects. Lots to do and not enough time to do it.

Love that quote BTW

What you said! We are closing on a new property in the next week or two.

What's that sound? Dozers. It's bulldozers.

 

[DoubleRidge]

1. Prescribed Fire on 3 blocks ranging from 10-20 acres.

5. Converting 2 acres of pipeline into NWSG.

bjohnson...great looking list...I have a question about #1 & #5:

For #1 - did you create the three 10-20 acre burn blocks yourself? (Firebreaks, etc.) Or did you hire the Forestry Dept to help you get started? Any info about how you started the process is appreciated.

For #5 - we have a proposed gas line that if approved will come through our farm....I like the idea of NWSG...As a cost share opportunity will you go through the NRCS for the seed? Or is there a better way to obtain NWSG seed? I've read about different programs but not sure where to start? Appreciate any input...Thanks.

 

[BSK]

What's that sound? Dozers. It's bulldozers.

What I wouldn't give to find someone with a small dozer, knows how to make roads, and isn't busy building home sites. I need a LOT of small roads built but can't seem to find a dozer operator that isn't heavily backlogged.

 

[bjohnson]

bjohnson...great looking list...I have a question about #1 & #5:

For #1 - did you create the three 10-20 acre burn blocks yourself? (Firebreaks, etc.) Or did you hire the Forestry Dept to help you get started? Any info about how you started the process is appreciated.

For #5 - we have a proposed gas line that if approved will come through our farm....I like the idea of NWSG...As a cost share opportunity will you go through the NRCS for the seed? Or is there a better way to obtain NWSG seed? I've read about different programs but not sure where to start? Appreciate any input...Thanks.

DR,

The road system on our farm serves as the backbone for our firebreaks but we have also created additional firebreaks ourselves. We have our own dozer.

If the pipeline through your farm is approved I would sit back and see what natives come up before planting anything. The only thing we are lacking native wise on our pipeline is NWSG so we are looking at no-tilling it in. We have not went through NRCS for EQUIP or cost share but I have tried unsuccessfully to get our farm enrolled into the bobwhite habitat restoration program through NRCS the last 2 years. I am reaching out to QF to try and see if their biologist will come out and help us to get enrolled.

Below is what our pipeline looks like now. The only non-native invasive in it is japanese honeysuckle we are just missing NWSG.

 

[bjohnson]

What I wouldn't give to find someone with a small dozer, knows how to make roads, and isn't busy building home sites. I need a LOT of small roads built but can't seem to find a dozer operator that isn't heavily backlogged.

Sounds like I need to get to work on a side hustle lol

 

[DeerCamp]

What I wouldn't give to find someone with a small dozer, knows how to make roads, and isn't busy building home sites. I need a LOT of small roads built but can't seem to find a dozer operator that isn't heavily backlogged.

I can help with that. One of my buddies runs his own operations.
When are you wanting the work done? Estimate on total work?

 

[DoubleRidge]

DR,

The road system on our farm serves as the backbone for our firebreaks but we have also created additional firebreaks ourselves. We have our own dozer.

If the pipeline through your farm is approved I would sit back and see what natives come up before planting anything. The only thing we are lacking native wise on our pipeline is NWSG so we are looking at no-tilling it in. We have not went through NRCS for EQUIP or cost share but I have tried unsuccessfully to get our farm enrolled into the bobwhite habitat restoration program through NRCS the last 2 years. I am reaching out to QF to try and see if their biologist will come out and help us to get enrolled.

Below is what our pipeline looks like now. The only non-native invasive in it is japanese honeysuckle we are just missing NWSG.

View attachment 163116

bjohnson....appreciate the information...we completed a TSI project 3 years ago so we do have a road system that could serve as a firebreak in certain locations but I still will need to create a few firebreaks to contain the burn block. And we actually have a small farm dozer. (which needs some mechanical work). But the TN Forestry Dept has a base fee of $450 then it's $45 per acre.... considered having them develop one burn unit, gain the experience and knowledge then do the other two units ourselves....would like to get on a three year rotation.... burning one unit each year.... maybe 5 to 10 acre in each unit.

For the proposed gas line....they are saying it will run on the south side of the TVA powerline that already run across the farm....so the gas line won't get great sunlight....but it will allow more sunlight to the current food plots we have on the right of way.....and we have spoken with the representative of the company and I asked about seeding when they are done...he actually mentioned NWSG in areas that are not in pasture....I just wondered about managing it in the future? Will the NRCS cost share? I know they promote converting pasture land back to NWSG...the proposed gas line will cover approximately 6 to 7 acre's crossing us so I'm curious about managing it to benefit wildlife....and NWSG would create some nice fawning and nesting ground.

One last question.....how often do they mow the gas line right of way? I know it will be managed differently than the large TVA powerline right of way.

 

[buckaroo]

What I wouldn't give to find someone with a small dozer, knows how to make roads, and isn't busy building home sites. I need a LOT of small roads built but can't seem to find a dozer operator that isn't heavily backlogged.

I had a guy build me some roads in steep hillsides with a mini excavator, I swear I think those things are faster than a dozer, especially if rocky ground

 

[bjohnson]

One last question.....how often do they mow the gas line right of way? I know it will be managed differently than the large TVA powerline right of way.

If you can speak with your NRCS you can probably enroll in EQIP to cost share the NWSG planting. As far as sunlight, you could open up the canopy around the pipeline to help get more to the ground which you could also get money for through EQIP.

The pipeline through our property is almost 8 acres. The best thing to do is to reach out to the pipeline company manager and see how often they will mow. We reached out to ours and told them we would maintain it so they didn't touch it. However, in 2021 they changed managers and he didn't know so they mowed it. Our mistake for not staying in contact.

 

[BSK]

If the pipeline through your farm is approved I would sit back and see what natives come up before planting anything. The only thing we are lacking native wise on our pipeline is NWSG so we are looking at no-tilling it in. We have not went through NRCS for EQUIP or cost share but I have tried unsuccessfully to get our farm enrolled into the bobwhite habitat restoration program through NRCS the last 2 years. I am reaching out to QF to try and see if their biologist will come out and help us to get enrolled.

Below is what our pipeline looks like now. The only non-native invasive in it is japanese honeysuckle we are just missing NWSG.

View attachment 163116

The above picture is EXACTLY what our ROWs look like now, and they are a goldmine for deer. Personally, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[BSK]

I can help with that. One of my buddies runs his own operations.
When are you wanting the work done? Estimate on total work?

PM on the way.

I've been having a devil of a time finding someone 1) willing to make roads, and 2) who understands how to make roads on steep terrain that do not rapidly wash out. Water-bars are not the answer. Broad-based dips are the answer. And these don't need to be car roads, just roads usuable by UTV and 4-wheel-drive tractor. In fact, most of the roads I need already exist. 40 years ago, the northern end of my property was logged. This left skidder trails along every ridgeline, bordering every creek, and running up any slowly sloping point (where they drug the logs up to the ridge-top loading decks). However, over the years, these skidder trails have become blocked by trees and many have washed out. I just need them all reopened and smoothed for use (as well as altered to resist washing out).

 

[DoubleRidge]

If you can speak with your NRCS you can probably enroll in EQIP to cost share the NWSG planting. As far as sunlight, you could open up the canopy around the pipeline to help get more to the ground which you could also get money for through EQIP.

The pipeline through our property is almost 8 acres. The best thing to do is to reach out to the pipeline company manager and see how often they will mow. We reached out to ours and told them we would maintain it so they didn't touch it. However, in 2021 they changed managers and he didn't know so they mowed it. Our mistake for not staying in contact.

Thanks again...during our TSI project our Forester educated us on the EQIP program and we were approved for hack-n-squirt so we were able to contract that out...had to jump through several hoops to get approved...but in the end it was worth it.

Great suggestion for getting to know the pipe line manager...I've done that with the TVA vegetation manager before and he's always been supportive answering questions, etc.....thanks again.

 

[bjohnson]

PM on the way.

I've been having a devil of a time finding someone 1) willing to make roads, and 2) who understands how to make roads on steep terrain that do not rapidly wash out. Water-bars are not the answer. Broad-based dips are the answer. And these don't need to be car roads, just roads usuable by UTV and 4-wheel-drive tractor. In fact, most of the roads I need already exist. 40 years ago, the northern end of my property was logged. This left skidder trails along every ridgeline, bordering every creek, and running up any slowly sloping point (where they drug the logs up to the ridge-top loading decks). However, over the years, these skidder trails have become blocked by trees and many have washed out. I just need them all reopened and smoothed for use (as well as altered to resist washing out).

A broad based dip will not work on grades greater than 8%, you would need a rolling dip for anything over.

 

[BSK]

A broad based dip will not work on grades greater than 8%, you would need a rolling dip for anything over.

We wouldn't be able to get our tractor up a grade over 8%. And that's another problem, For the life of me I can't get bulldozer operators to make a slowly sloping road up the side of a steep hill (cutting across the slope). Too many have worked with loggers in the past and just want to make a road straight up the hillside. Skidders can make those. Tractors cannot.

But you are correct, rolling dips work great, as long as the bottom of the dip is slanted down on the outward side. Much better than water bars, and if done right, will last almost forever.

 

[squackattack]

We wouldn't be able to get our tractor up a grade over 8%. And that's another problem, For the life of me I can't get bulldozer operators to make a slowly sloping road up the side of a steep hill (cutting across the slope). Too many have worked with loggers in the past and just want to make a road straight up the hillside. Skidders can make those. Tractors cannot.

But you are correct, rolling dips work great, as long as the bottom of the dip is slanted down on the outward side. Much better than water bars, and if done right, will last almost forever.

I would have recommended a reputable logger to get your roads in. Oops

 

[BSK]

I would have recommended a reputable logger to get your roads in. Oops

Actually, some of the bulldozer work I need done is to fix all the roads the loggers destroyed! Their bulldozer operator was a nice guy, but had no idea how to make a lasting road. He only knew how to make a temporary road a log truck could traverse a few times, or a road a skidder could follow (usually straight up a steep slope). Nothing irks me more than a bulldozer operator who thinks I nice level road that is trenched a foot deeper than the surrounding ground is a good idea. He's just created a new creek channel that's going to experience massive erosion. We've now got ridgetop roads that are trenched so deep, during wet weather you can float a canoe down them. Literally.