2015-2016 TWRA Proposals and Buck Limit

[contendershooter]

I was on here a couple years ago and posted a link to a surveymonkey survey in regards to allowing single shot rifles and shot guns along with single shot handguns to be used during the muzzle loader season, thus making it a short range weapons season. The response on here was around the same in regards to positive vs negative, and the TWRA refused to bring it forward. I did not realize how political the process is, and how hard it is to get your voice heard if just one person is against the decision prior to the proposals making it to the board. For the 2014-2015 season I said nothing. I have since found there are several TWRA officials and game wardens here, on this blog, and I would hope they would keep an open mind as to what is said on these forums as the hunters do fully support the jobs you do, and we do care about the wildlife, the wildlife population and having hunting for generations to come until the end of time.

That being said, for this year I have re-submitted my proposal as I have watched neighboring states legalize hunting with handguns during muzzleloder seasons, hunting with single shot rifles chambered in "straight walled" cartridges during muzzleloader seasons, hunting with rifles above .35 caliber during muzzleloader seasons, and other modifications. Hunters whom live in our state and live close to these border states may opt to take their hunting there vs staying here. The deciding fact from the response I got back from certain TWRA officials is that a single shot rifle, shotgun, handgun has a signifigant advantage over a muzzleloader...reloading speed...some of that was hashed out on post here. Now Remington has made a muzzleloder that fires using a modified 308 case, fires 200 grains of black powder or substitute, and is 300 yards accurate. Savage has its smokeless powder muzzleloader and a very quick web search shows kills of 200+ yards. T/C using the Encore and other top end muzzleloaders have seen articles written about 200+ yard kills. So your telling me that a handgun is still at a advantage? A single shot 44 mag rifle is still at an advantage? With the TWRA funding coming from sportsman, allowing the use of handguns and single shot shotguns and rifles, even if only chambered in handgun calibers WOULD NOT make that great of a difference in harvest, and you won't have everyone and their brother dropping their muzzleloders. It would allow people who go out of state during that time to possibly stay in state, possibly get into the even more challenging world of handgun hunting, allow youth and/or older persons to hunt earlier and often, and bring in hunters whom otherwise skip muzzleloader for what ever reason. Reloading speed is no longer a good excuse to deny this proposal, hardly even a valid one... that's my .02cents on that one. :bash:

ON the email that was sent out on lowering the buck harvest...do we really take too many bucks or is it the size of the bucks we are taking? Maybe versus lowering the number of bucks per year, make it a 4 point minimum or give a width estimate where the rack has to go out to the tip of the ears or something. I don't really see that we are harvesting too many bucks, but maybe too small of bucks?? :?:

Look forward to seeing comments for both on this one...

 

[scn]

I would hope that TWRA and TFWC would continue to keep the muzzleloader season strictly for muzzleloaders. The ability to quickly reload with the other weapons totally changes the process by allowing quick followup shots. If a change is to be made, I would prefer to see the muzzleloading season go away entirely and just have an archery and firearms (any) season.

 

[tn droptine]

I agree with scn, if they do change it, I hope it is just to do away with ml all together and make it archery season followed by any weapon.

As for the antler restrictions... I hope like heck they never impose anything like you mentioned. Why kill off the majority of your better genetic young bucks that meet the criteria? I hunted a place in AL this year that had an antler restriction, and lots of guys were annoyed with it due to the fact that most of the "legal" bucks were younger and therefore had not reached their potential and the older, mature deer that they were seeing did not meet the minimum antler requirement.

 

[BSK]

I would hope that TWRA and TFWC would continue to keep the muzzleloader season strictly for muzzleloaders. The ability to quickly reload with the other weapons totally changes the process by allowing quick followup shots. If a change is to be made, I would prefer to see the muzzleloading season go away entirely and just have an archery and firearms (any) season.

Agreed. Modern in-lines--with the exception of slow follow-up shots--have become nearly modern rifles. Instead of adding more weapons, let's just have a bow season and a firearms season (and start that firearms season Nov. 1! ;) ).

 

[redblood]

I would hope that TWRA and TFWC would continue to keep the muzzleloader season strictly for muzzleloaders. The ability to quickly reload with the other weapons totally changes the process by allowing quick followup shots. If a change is to be made, I would prefer to see the muzzleloading season go away entirely and just have an archery and firearms (any) season.

Agreed. Modern in-lines--with the exception of slow follow-up shots--have become nearly modern rifles. Instead of adding more weapons, let's just have a bow season and a firearms season (and start that firearms season Nov. 1! ;) ).

yes please. then I could get rid of all this muzzleloading junk

 

[megalomaniac]

Drop all buck limits and start rifle Aug 1 and extend through Jan 31. That is the recommendation I sent to my district commissioner and the commissioners at large. Fair for everyone. If you want to hunt with a handgun, fine... If you want to hunt with claymore mines, fine. As long as the deer population is reduced... there's just too many of them in TN, anyway... they need to be thinned out before they starve.

 

[BSK]

Drop all buck limits and start rifle Aug 1 and extend through Jan 31.

A few years back, South Carolina's Low Country had a gun season opening Aug. 15 and running to Dec. 31, with no limit on bucks. Some of the best buck age structures I've ever seen where in that area, under those rules.

 

[Hunter 257W]

Drop all buck limits and start rifle Aug 1 and extend through Jan 31.

A few years back, South Carolina's Low Country had a gun season opening Aug. 15 and running to Dec. 31, with no limit on bucks. Some of the best buck age structures I've ever seen where in that area, under those rules.

How do you account for that, BSK? Did the buck age structure change significantly because of this extremely long gun season? Or was it already pretty balanced and just stayed that way after the change to a longer gun season? Or maybe hunter numbers and kill numbers had topped out to the point that hunters didn't want any more bucks even with more days available to them for hunting? Maybe the bucks reacted to the extra pressure by vanishing during daylight hours?

 

[BSK]

Drop all buck limits and start rifle Aug 1 and extend through Jan 31.

A few years back, South Carolina's Low Country had a gun season opening Aug. 15 and running to Dec. 31, with no limit on bucks. Some of the best buck age structures I've ever seen where in that area, under those rules.

How do you account for that, BSK? Did the buck age structure change significantly because of this extremely long gun season? Or was it already pretty balanced and just stayed that way after the change to a longer gun season? Or maybe hunter numbers and kill numbers had topped out to the point that hunters didn't want any more bucks even with more days available to them for hunting? Maybe the bucks reacted to the extra pressure by vanishing during daylight hours?

Two major factors Hunter 257W: lack of visibility, and lots of clubs. The area has a lot of low visibility swampy ground and low visibility pine plantations. Visibility--the average distance a hunter can see/shoot--is a MAJOR player in hunters' ability to impact a local deer population. It's one of the primary reasons the buck age structure in TN along the western Highland Rim is so good. The forested ridge-and-hollow terrain greatly limits visual ranges, which protects bucks far better than most would believe. The Low Country of SC also is big club country. Lots of large landholdings owned or leased for deer hunting, and these clubs set their own buck harvest rules.

 

[deadeye 77]

question: through out Tennessee does everyone here and in the state think we are over populated with does from the east to the west?

 

[Lost Lake]

question: through out Tennessee does everyone here and in the state think we are over populated with does from the east to the west?

No.

 

[deadeye 77]

so the buck to doe ratio is where it needs to be right?

 

[BSK]

so the buck to doe ratio is where it needs to be right?

In some areas yes, and in some areas no. Those parts of the state that have had the highest doe harvests over the most years (Unit L) have very good adult sex ratios. Those areas with the fewest doe harvests (Unit B) have the poorest adult sex ratios. But I don't believe any sizeable area has terrible sex ratios.

 

[MUP]

question: through out Tennessee does everyone here and in the state think we are over populated with does from the east to the west?

Absolutely not in my area.

 

[BSK]

question: through out Tennessee does everyone here and in the state think we are over populated with does from the east to the west?

OVER-populated? No.

 

[deadeye 77]

then why do we have a 3/day doe limit in unit L if were not over populated. what would ya'll think a good buck to doe ratio should be in order to see more quality bucks here?

 

[Shed Hunter]

then why do we have a 3/day doe limit in unit L if were not over populated. what would ya'll think a good buck to doe ratio should be in order to see more quality bucks here?

Overpopulated is a very bad thing

 

[Mike Belt]

deadeye 77...

A better question might be do you think we would be overpopulated without a 3 doe/day limit? My guess is yes. I'd much rather see us under than over...although I wonder if that limit should be a given every year.

 

[deerchaser007]

deadeye 77...

A better question might be do you think we would be overpopulated without a 3 doe/day limit? My guess is yes. I'd much rather see us under than over...although I wonder if that limit should be a given every year.

The even better question is why after all these years of unit L and increased doe opportunity in A & B why we have not stabilized the herd. TWRA says it fears we are going back to pre 2006 numbers, so the herd is not stable. But, under differ management techniques other states like MS, KY,GA,AR, etc say they have stabilized the herd at or under capacity and are pleased with their harvest ratio's. So, if that is correct, do we put to much emphasis on our buck harvest and not our doe harvest?

 

[AT Hiker]

Drop all buck limits and start rifle Aug 1 and extend through Jan 31.

A few years back, South Carolina's Low Country had a gun season opening Aug. 15 and running to Dec. 31, with no limit on bucks. Some of the best buck age structures I've ever seen where in that area, under those rules.

You could even spotlight on private ground in a few if those counties.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deadeye 77]

what does the TWRA think the buck to doe ratio is in Tennessee are we 15:1 or 10:1 or 20:1. we need to focus on harvest of adult does more than bucks it can and will balance out if we quit passing on the does so much.

 

[deadeye 77]

anyone got an idea what a good buck to doe ratio needs to be for a healthy herd?

 

[BSK]

then why do we have a 3/day doe limit in unit L if were not over populated. what would ya'll think a good buck to doe ratio should be in order to see more quality bucks here?

It was originally established to "send a message" to hunters that shooting does was OK. But even after implementation, rarely do county harvests have doe harvests exceeding buck harvests (rarely higher than 60% females). They often do for the first year or two after a county moves into Unit L, but then taper off to around 50/50 or 55/45 bucks to does. Part of that taper off is due to less does to shoot at, part of it is the sudden reaction of previously protected does to being shot at (suddenly becoming much warier), and part of it is hunter attitudes, as the "newness" of being allowed to shoot a bunch of does wears off and hunters realize just how much trouble processing/butchering all those does can be.

 

[BSK]

anyone got an idea what a good buck to doe ratio needs to be for a healthy herd?

Natural deer herds--those unaffected by human hunter's desire for antlered bucks--generally run around 1.2 to 1.4 adult does per adult buck.

 

[BSK]

what does the TWRA think the buck to doe ratio is in Tennessee are we 15:1 or 10:1 or 20:1. we need to focus on harvest of adult does more than bucks it can and will balance out if we quit passing on the does so much.

The last time the TWRA conducted a statewide census, adult sex ratios were found to run in the 1.4 to 1.8 does per buck range.

 

[deadeye 77]

what year was that census done something is not adding up. if it is 1.4 to 1.8 doe to 1 buck then why is unit L having a 3/day limit on does just don't sound right. :bash:

 

[deerchaser007]

what year was that census done something is not adding up. if it is 1.4 to 1.8 doe to 1 buck then why is unit L having a 3/day limit on does just don't sound right. :bash:

The census was conducted in southern mid TN were the highest % of deer are in the state

 

[stik]

what year was that census done something is not adding up. if it is 1.4 to 1.8 doe to 1 buck then why is unit L having a 3/day limit on does just don't sound right. :bash:

even with the 3/day limit on does, the kill is still close to 50/50 in most of those counties.

 

[deerchaser007]

what year was that census done something is not adding up. if it is 1.4 to 1.8 doe to 1 buck then why is unit L having a 3/day limit on does just don't sound right. :bash:

even with the 3/day limit on does, the kill is still close to 50/50 in most of those counties.

With the EHD outbreak lowering the deer herd to capacity and a 50/50 harvest you would expect the herd to stabilize, but fear is now we are heading toward disaster again. Even in our unit L counties with those ratios and harvest. From a management standpoint, I don't see how.

 

[BSK]

what year was that census done something is not adding up. if it is 1.4 to 1.8 doe to 1 buck then why is unit L having a 3/day limit on does just don't sound right. :bash:

Hunters aren't taking advantage of the high limit, so it isn't a problem. If the buck limit were 50, but hunters weren't killing too many bucks, what is the problem with a limit of 50?