EHD ?

Do y'all think this is just an OLD deer, or does it look like EHD to you?
This land hasn't been hunted in 10-12 years if that sways your guess?
I'm leaning toward old age. She's there every single day and there's no water within 1/2 mile or more, maybe even a mile. When they have EHD they typically hang out around water, not salt.

No idea, but she is definitely sick.

That deer is in bad shape

BSK said:

No idea, but she is definitely sick.

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Brian, If I take her out of the herd, do you think I should have her tested?

Knothead said:

Do y'all think this is just an OLD deer, or does it look like EHD to you?
This land hasn't been hunted in 10-12 years if that sways your guess?
I'm leaning toward old age. She's there every single day and there's no water within 1/2 mile or more, maybe even a mile. When they have EHD they typically hang out around water, not salt.
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What county?

MickThompson said:

What county?

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Williamson.

Would definitely have the deer tested for cwd, if you kill her. I would bet it is already in middle Tennessee.

This is her in daytime with her fawns. I think it's more of an issue of the fawns wearing her down. They should be weaned soon.

Knothead said:

This is her in daytime with her fawns. I think it's more of an issue of the fawns wearing her down. They should be weaned soon.
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Looking at that, she may be ok, but would still probably test for CWD.

Looking at the day picture I would be willing to bet the fact she has 2 fawns pulling her down is why she looks the way she does. Once they wean she may fill right back out. Testing is always good

she is clearly underweight and in poor condition.

Whether that is from disease, parasitic overload, just the fawns pulling on her is impossible to know.

I wouldn't shoot her, as there doesn't look to be enough meat on her right now to be worth fooling with.

She doesn't look anywhere near as bad in daylight. I've seen some research projects indicating raising twin fawns can cut a doe's weight by 25%.

BSK said:

She doesn't look anywhere near as bad in daylight. I've seen some research projects indicating raising twin fawns can cut a doe's weight by 25%.

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@120 lbs that's a lot of weight to loose...i've seen some Bucks after the rut that were pretty raged too...I believe it for sure...

Hawk103161 said:

@120 lbs that's a lot of weight to loose...i've seen some Bucks after the rut that were pretty raged too...I believe it for sure...

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Mature bucks can lose 30% of their body weight during the 6 weeks of peak breeding. That's a 200 lb live weight buck falling to 140 lbs in 6 weeks. I can show plenty of examples of absolute toad mature bucks on trail-cam in mid-October ending up only shells of themselves when killed late in December. And THAT is why - outside of big agriculture areas - so few bucks live beyond 5-6 years old. Their bodies can't take the ravages of the rut anymore.

BSK said:

Mature bucks can lose 30% of their body weight during the 6 weeks of peak breeding. That's a 200 lb live weight buck falling to 140 lbs in 6 weeks. I can show plenty of examples of absolute toad mature bucks on trail-cam in mid-October ending up only shells of themselves when killed late in December. And THAT is why - outside of big agriculture areas - so few bucks live beyond 5-6 years old. Their bodies can't take the ravages of the rut anymore.

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Yep. Amazing the transformation a bucks body goes through over a couple months time.

Hawk 103161,

You got me curious and I went and looked at a couple of big harvest databases I have from hunting clubs in the Southeast. By deer season, does that successfully raised fawns have recovered, but not all the way. For does 2 1/2 and older, ones that successfully raised fawns (were still lactating) averaged 12% lighter in body weight than does that had not successfully raised fawns.

BSK said:

Hawk 103161,

You got me curious and I went and looked at a couple of big harvest databases I have from hunting clubs in the Southeast. By deer season, does that successfully raised fawns have recovered, but not all the way. For does 2 1/2 and older, ones that successfully raised fawns (were still lactating) averaged 12% lighter in body weight than does that had not successfully raised fawns.

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That's interesting data @BSK . I shot my PB Doe last Archery Season at 128 Lbs. field dressed. She was a lone traveler and when I retrieved her she was lactating. I saw her drop and expire at about 70 yards. No other deer were around... now that's not saying she didn't have one or 2 bedded somewhere close. Nor did I see any young ones wondering around later on. ( I hunt there often). The Data you share is always exhaustive, interesting, and informative....

Hawk103161 said:

That's interesting data @BSK . I shot my PB Doe last Archery Season at 128 Lbs. field dressed. She was a lone traveler and when I retrieved her she was lactating. I saw her drop and expire at about 70 yards. No other deer were around... now that's not saying she didn't have one or 2 bedded somewhere close. Nor did I see any young ones wondering around later on. ( I hunt there often). The Data you share is always exhaustive, interesting, and informative....

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Generally speaking, a doe that successfully raised fawns should still have her fawn(s) travelling with her during deer season. However, that is not always a given, but it is the norm. If her fawn died/was killed very close to season, I suspect she would still be lactating. I don't know why this is, but data on how long a doe will stay lactating after weening her fawns is hard to come by. No one has published any research on that topic. From what I've seen, if a doe successfully raises a fawn into September, she will continue to have milk in her udder through November, but after that, it gets iffy. If her fawn(s) is/are still alive, even after weening, they instinctively keep nuzzling their mom's udder long after, which keeps milk flowing, and a doe that still has fawns with her will usually still be lactating into at least mid-December.

she's still actively nursing. Lots of pictures of this.

Knothead said:

she's still actively nursing. Lots of pictures of this.
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Just remember fawns will attempt to nurse - as a social cue - long, long after they are weened. I've seen yearlings still nudging their mother's udders a year after they are weened. It is a display of subordination to their mother which kindles familial relationships.