Racknquack
Well-Known Member
Very cool. I like the collar studies as well. Thanks
Where did my buck go?
- Thread starter Andy S.
- Start date
Headhunter
Well-Known Member
Kind of agree, but some of my best bucks I killed, I was in the absolute worst place if you considered the wind and the terrain features. One guy was willing to bet a years pay, not only would I never kill a deer from that tree no matter how high I got or how hid I was no matter if I hunted from the ground or up in a stand but that I would never kill a buck and for sure not good one. His thought process was dead on when it came to wind thermals and the layout of the land in that bottom. That tree became one of the best I ever hunted til the land was sold. When I had that spot to hunt, I would hunt that tree every single time I went, no matter the conditions. Guy did not believe me til he hunted it and killed a good buck.
Sorry, I rarely pay attention to the wind. I hunt as often as I can and I watch, and move around when I think I need to til I get lucky and get a chance to kill a deer.
The tree I hunt in KY, is the only place I hunt on that farm. I hunt it every single time I am there, wind direction makes zero difference. Deer come from most any direction. Deer are almost never spooked, well the ones I see, I am sure some number of deer have to wind me and never show up, that happens to all who deer hunt. It is not in the best spot when it comes to thermals, but it is in the best spot to hide to some extent and for sure to see. Been one of the absolute best spots I have ever hunted.
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Well you must smell better than me because if I don't pay attention to where my stinch is going, and it crosses big boy's nose, then I never see him again and that spot is usually dead for days if not weeks. Heck, even when I do everything right, if I hunt the stand too often it quickly drops off from being a good spot to a spot the deer avoid. I guess they can smell not only where I'm at but also where I've been, and they don't like it. I must smell like a stone cold killer!
BSK
Well-Known Member
I have seen set-ups like the one Headhunter describes. They exist. However, they are quite rare, and usually, finding such a location is more an accident than anything else.
But again, those types of set-ups are rare. For the majority of hunters, the more they hunt a stand, on average, the lower the older buck sightings become. Tons of research available on this topic.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Agree with BSK, but there is a somewhat seasonal exception to this:
During the rut.
When bucks are roaming, with little on their minds beyond finding an estrous doe, they often seem oblivious to humans and other dangers.
There are times you can almost do jumping jacks on your stand and even older bucks just seem little alarmed.
Timing is everything, as in rut timing, including with some these spots like Headhunter has described.
Just to clarify, I'm talking mainly about travel routes used by older bucks, rather than feeding or bedding areas. In many these "spots" the deer density may be relatively low compared to nearby areas where deer bed and/or feed.
Bucks are simply taking the "easiest" route of least resistance between doe families and those doe family's preferred feeding & bedding areas (which are often outside the normal range of these bucks, except during the rut). On these roaming excursions, the bucks can be pretty oblivious to danger.
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I was mostly being facetious. Bad attempt at humor I guess.
I've gotten to the point where during the rut I do not pay much attention to wind. Usually the buck is chasing the doe, the doe isn't paying attention because she is trying to watch him, he is fixated on her, and it doesn't matter as much.
Same here. If my time is limited (like always), the rut is in full swing, the temps are favorable and I have a gun in my hand, I am hunting my best spot and climbing to keep the wind in my face, or have a cross wind. If I am hunting with a bow, more consideration is given to the wind.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed at how rarely I've shot a buck actually chasing a doe. I've certainly done it, but of all the mature bucks I've killed, only one was actively chasing a doe at the time. I always kill mature bucks when their "cruising" looking for does. Or maybe it's the type of hunting set-ups I choose? Perhaps I choose stand sites that are far more likely to see bucks travelling between doe groups.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Definitely.
Along with stage of rut as well.
Some places I hunt would be considered big woods areas. During the time that bucks are really on their feet and covering ground looking for does at all hours of the day, terrain features are what I'm gonna focus on. Doe groups and younger bucks are gonna be using those areas on occasion as well. I don't want to spook them if at all possible.
Usually the hunt will take place with a rifle or muzzleloader, and I'll surely try to set up on the downwind side of the prevailing wind in those areas. I'll usually be on the ground and can make changes easily.
Can the wind change throughout the hunt? Sure. But I'll take my chances with the prevailing direction it'll be coming from and set up accordingly.
Usually the hunt will take place with a rifle or muzzleloader, and I'll surely try to set up on the downwind side of the prevailing wind in those areas. I'll usually be on the ground and can make changes easily.
Can the wind change throughout the hunt? Sure. But I'll take my chances with the prevailing direction it'll be coming from and set up accordingly.
woodsman04
Well-Known Member
Neat stuff, although I'm not really surprised.
They move around and shift a whole lot more than some people think.
I hear so many people say, "I got pictures of him all July and August."
as soon as that velvet is gone it's like light switch. One reason I'm against the velvet hunt, lot easier to pattern them eating in a bean field.
They move around and shift a whole lot more than some people think.
I hear so many people say, "I got pictures of him all July and August."
as soon as that velvet is gone it's like light switch. One reason I'm against the velvet hunt, lot easier to pattern them eating in a bean field.
Here is another study done by University of Arkansas back in 2011 during the historic MS River flood of record.
www.deerassociation.com
Bucks Are Loyal to Home Ranges, Come Hell or High Water | NDA
Many hunters wonder if disturbances of various kinds can force deer to abandon an established home range, or whether deer will permanently leave a home range in search of better conditions, such as less hunting pressure, more abundant food, less intimidation by more dominant bucks, or greater...
www.deerassociation.com
Here is a link to a deer that had on a collar and was tracked. He moved roughly 200 miles in 22 days, crossed a major river 7 times
www.newsbreakapp.com
The buck stops where? Research records longest-ever deer distance - NewsBreak
Why did the deer cross the road? According to research from the University of New Hampshire to keep going and going and going. Researchers have discovered the longest distance ever recorded by an adult male white-tailed deer—300 kilometers, or close to 200 miles, in just over three weeks. The...
That's my experience as well. I began bow hunting in the early 90's and hunt an awful lot in multiple states. I can almost count on one hand all the chases I've seen where deer were so stupid that they ignored me. Most of my bucks have come either from movement between bedding & food, or as you say cruising for does. Even a cruising buck with "blinders" on will take notice of human scent & blow out. In my experience nothing trumps their instinct to survive.
^^^^ I suspect some of what you all describe is a reflection of the buck to doe ratio in immediate area. I hunted Ames for years where I truly believe our ratio was 1:1.5 or so and we often times witnessed a line of bucks (last couple would be 3.5+) chasing a single doe, throwing ALL caution to the wind. I have witnessed it a fair amount from my climbing stand, but see it yearly when I am scouting, driving or what have you. I truly believe a buck will follow an estrus doe into Walmart if that is where she led him.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Andy, for the last decade plus, my sex ratio has been 1:2. By that I mean 2 bucks for every doe. The sex ratio is so skewed towards bucks that breeding is over very quickly, and is easily accomplished at night. We see VERY few daylight chases, but night-time chases on camera are commonplace, although over a very short calendar time period.
Adult sex ratios are one of the many factors of deer management I've changed my mind about dramatically over the years. I've worked with deer herds across the country at all levels of sex ratio and buck age structure, and what I see in reality versus what we were supposed to see in theory has radically changed my views on many things.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
BSK, I suspect the single biggest issue regarding your not killing more bucks trailing estrous does may have to do with your hunting as much or more in the rut's early stages (when FEW females are in estrous), along with the travel corridors you may more commonly prefer to hunt.
Personally, my hunting including early, peak, and late rut stages near equally, I end up killing about the same number of bucks trailing an estrous doe as I kill just traveling looking for one.
But, I also set up my stand locations about as much on top of doe families in bedding areas as I do on travel corridors that bucks use between these doe families.
There are a myriad of factors influencing what we see & kill, varying greatly from one hunter to another.
Personally, my hunting including early, peak, and late rut stages near equally, I end up killing about the same number of bucks trailing an estrous doe as I kill just traveling looking for one.
But, I also set up my stand locations about as much on top of doe families in bedding areas as I do on travel corridors that bucks use between these doe families.
There are a myriad of factors influencing what we see & kill, varying greatly from one hunter to another.
Same here. My 15 years spent embracing QDM early on, and then morphing into killing does at all costs has changed what I would promote if in charge of a program. A lot of what was taught and pushed 10-15 years ago turned an enjoyable hunting experience into misery IMO. Of course, the introduction of CWD on the herd just further complicated what I thought I learned/understood/knew.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
IMO, your thinking is somewhat incorrect.
What actually happened is that too often REAL QDM has been replaced with extremely strict "trophy" buck management.
I absolutely would NOT call the management at Ames "QDM".
IMO, REAL QDM has the widest appeal to the broadest group of hunters.
I do not disagree with your sentiments regarding the outcome of the deer management you've experienced. Only disagreeing with what it's been called.
