The most compelling data I have seen

[DeerCamp]

Linking the decline of turkey populations to declines in fur market/trapping.

fur sales mimics turkey harvest.

Raccoon population has nearly tripled since 1976.

Pelt prices have driven people out of the fur market.

 

[TnKen]

Since there is no market for fur, how much of a bounty would it take to encourage trapping?

 

[MickThompson]

That's not nearly a long enough trend line. Furs crashed in the late 80s with the stock market and wild fur sales never really recovered. But turkeys sure did well in spite of it.

 

[TITANSFAN2104]

Since there is no market for fur, how much of a bounty would it take to encourage trapping?

Well the bounty now is more or less more turkeys. You have turkey hunters wanting them trapped and gone so if enough people start knocking the fur down , we might see some change in small areas that are heavily trapped

 

[MickThompson]

Linking the decline of turkey populations to declines in fur market/trapping.

fur sales mimics turkey harvest.

View attachment 178952

Raccoon population has nearly tripled since 1976.
View attachment 178953

Pelt prices have driven people out of the fur market.
View attachment 178954

I'm going to guess that they changed their harvest estimate method in 2015. The wild swings went away.

 

[DeerCamp]

That's not nearly a long enough trend line. Furs crashed in the late 80s with the stock market and wild fur sales never really recovered. But turkeys sure did well in spite of it.

Dr. Grant Woods in convinced. Who am tI to argue.

 

[MickThompson]

So why did turkeys and presumably raccoons get along just fine together until 2010 or so?

 

[knightrider]

Dr. Grant Woods in convinced. Who am tI to argue.

Dr. Grant woods one of the greatest fleecers of the hunting world Made a living of absolutely nothing but selling what people already knew to them

 

[ROVERBOY]

So why did turkeys and presumably raccoons get along just fine together until 2010 or so?

I was wondering about that myself. In the places I hunt, we had way more birds 15 years ago, than we do now.

 

[Soft Talker]

Dr. Grant Woods in convinced. Who am tI to argue.

Something a very naive, liberal minded individual would say.

 

[mjwendorf]

I have trapped on our smaller plot of property 100 acres or so for the last 4 years. Have taken well over 100 coons and the turkey population has definitely increased. Is it because of the trapping?? Not 100% but it can't hurt the situation.

 

[poorhunter]

It has been decades since fur trapping has been monetarily beneficial. Decades. Turkeys thrived beyond imagination (and still do in places) with very high concentrations of nest raiders. Why can't they do so now?

 

[Carlos]

Here's one theory.

"As with any wildlife population, suitable habitat is key, and turkey habitat in the East is suffering in several ways," said Chamberlain. "Turkeys are inextricably linked to hardwood forest, and the amount of that habitat is decreasing. Land is also being converted to the types of habitats that are not conducive to turkeys, such as pine plantations in the southeast. In other words, the birds are trying to survive in poor-quality woodlands."

Logging is not good for wild turkeys.

 

[MickThompson]

It has been decades since fur trapping has been monetarily beneficial. Decades. Turkeys thrived beyond imagination (and still do in places) with very high concentrations of nest raiders. Why can't they do so now?

Habitat, particularly fragmentation and loss of brood and nesting cover
Disease? Probably in places
Predators? Sure, when they don't have safe places to nest and raise young.
Overharvest? Maybe
Technology? I think so

We all want to nail down the one thing that will fix it or the one thing to blame that we can throw our hands up and give up over. The reality is it's a mix of parts and pieces in different ratios and things we don't even understand that drive it.

 

[MickThompson]

Here's one theory.

"As with any wildlife population, suitable habitat is key, and turkey habitat in the East is suffering in several ways," said Chamberlain. "Turkeys are inextricably linked to hardwood forest, and the amount of that habitat is decreasing. Land is also being converted to the types of habitats that are not conducive to turkeys, such as pine plantations in the southeast. In other words, the birds are trying to survive in poor-quality woodlands."

Logging is not good for wild turkeys.

That's a gross over simplification. Without logging there's no young forest- nesting and brood cover.

Forests change through time. Oaks die out whether we cut them or not. If there's no light the oaks get replaced by maples and beech.

 

[poorhunter]

Habitat, particularly fragmentation and loss of brood and nesting cover
Disease? Probably in places
Predators? Sure, when they don't have safe places to nest and raise young.
Overharvest? Maybe
Technology? I think so

We all want to nail down the one thing that will fix it or the one thing to blame that we can throw our hands up and give up over. The reality is it's a mix of parts and pieces in different ratios and things we don't even understand that drive it.

Sure, there are definitely several factors, but I discount the role nest raiders and habitat loss have played in the recent decline because those factors are a constant in the equation. There are vast acreages of prime habitat that lost whole flocks of turkeys, and "marginal" habitat that have growing populations. Turkeys can live just about anywhere. Those two are not what has been the problem.

 

[MickThompson]

Sure, there are definitely several factors, but I discount the role nest raiders and habitat loss have played in the recent decline because those factors are a constant in the equation. There are vast acreages of prime habitat that lost whole flocks of turkeys, and "marginal" habitat that have growing populations. Turkeys can live just about anywhere. Those two are not what has been the problem.

While habitat loss is constant, it is accelerating and I think there's a break over point where the habitat gets so fragmented or degraded that the birds have to abandon those marginal areas.

 

[ImThere]

Dr. Grant Woods in convinced. Who am tI to argue.

Blindly trust the science type?

 

[poorhunter]

While habitat loss is constant, it is accelerating and I think there's a break over point where the habitat gets so fragmented or degraded that the birds have to abandon those marginal areas.

I can agree that there are places where urban sprawl can and does cause birds to abandon marginal areas. The problem is that birds are becoming void in prime areas too. I can also understand that populations have ebbs and flows, highs and lows. But what is happening all across the country, with some (but few) exceptions, is that the population is in slow and steady decline for the last decade. In some places it hasn't been so slow and steady. There are millions of acre as of prime habitat that have had no nest raider control for decades and decades and turkeys did just fine, and for some reason they are now basically disappearing from these same areas. Something has changed in the last 10-15 years that is causing widespread and alarming decline, be it natural or man made. This happened to quail as well, and it isn't known what happened with them. It is way too easy (and not accurate) to blame "predators and habitat loss" when the predators have always been there and there are vast acreages of prime habitat that lost their birds too.

 

[Knothead]

I see all the comments about nest raiders and habitat loss (most of which I agree with), but shouldn't we also take into consideration the number of hunters as well. I would think that has to be a factor in this perplexing situation.
Maybe that number has increased, maybe it has remained fairly constant, or (with all the tree hugging, whale kissing, tofu farting liberals and the delusional PETA followers), perhaps the number has declined. I don't know, but I would surmise that is a part of the equation that we aren't plugging in to the calculations.