Savage Smokeless Explosion

TboneD

TboneD

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Got to see an old friend today first time face to face in maybe 18 years. Anyhow, he showed me his Savage STAINLESS smokeless ML that blew up on him several years ago. Maybe over 10, I don't know. Anyhow I should've taken a pic or two because it's amazing and only by God's grace he wasn't hurt.

Gary is one of the last guys I'd expect to not be careful so I honestly don't think it was his fault. He's probably reloaded for decades and knew not to try too hot a load or use the wrong powder. Any of y'all heard of any stories like this?
 
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I have seen serval posts different places over the years, it can happen with any gun but muzzle loaders cause horrible damage, put 2 250g target soft lead in mine, a slight bulge and some lose of accuracy, kicked the hell out of me, worse than the 3.5" Mossburg. made me drop it. Not paying attention has repercussions.
 
mike243 said:
I have seen serval posts different places over the years, it can happen with any gun but muzzle loaders cause horrible damage, put 2 250g target soft lead in mine, a slight bulge and some lose of accuracy, kicked the hell out of me, worse than the 3.5" Mossburg. made me drop it. Not paying attention has repercussions.
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Man, that could've been much worse!

Again, I wish I'd taken a pic of what's left of Gary's gun. Guess he's keeping it as a souvenir for when the good Lord was watching over him. Scope blew off so it's good his left hand wasn't over the gun. And of course the stock is more than just a little cracked lol
 
Mark the ramrods, pucker up, look at the ramrod again and electric tape the bores after loading. I wrap tape around my powder tubes so I always have it.

Since, I am a hoarder. I have 3 different smokeless guns. I have just always loaded the savage with the lightest load. All the deer died within sight if hit in the vitals.

I may not even give them to my kids....you need to want and understand these firearms. They don't have that desire and history.
 
Antler Daddy said:
Mark the ramrods, pucker up, look at the ramrod again and electric tape the bores after loading. I wrap tape around my powder tubes so I always have it.

Since, I am a hoarder. I have 3 different smokeless guns. I have just always loaded the savage with the lightest load. All the deer died within sight if hit in the vitals.

I may not even give them to my kids....you need to want and understand these firearms. They don't have that desire and history.
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This is true.
 
I've seen a bunch of stories about things like that. There was a story on the S&W forum the other day by a guy that blew a J-frame to pieces with his reloaded ammo. All kinds of discussion about what could have happened without him making a mistake. I don't know him and what happened does not impact me, but he screwed up. I would guess he doubled charged, but who knows.
 
Iglow said:
There's a video of a Savage ML that just detonates into multiple pieces, it's ugly. I'll see if I can find it.
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Yes, after my friend's blew up he started researching and came across what's likely the same video you're talking about.

Despite the aforementioned assumptions that he doubled loaded the gun he has two friends who were at the range that said otherwise. I just talked to him again about it and he said it was probably 13 yrs or so ago. So he doesn't remember the exact powder but thinks it was maybe 41g of whatever it was. He went to an TC ProHunter after that but what's funny is he went straight to his truck and got his shotgun to shoot right after the incident, telling his friend it was like falling off a horse and he wasn't going to leave the range that day without shooting something, no matter how shook up he was. Have a feeling he flinched on that next shot. 😂

Just told me he'd been hunting with it a few years and he reiterated it blew up on him with the same load he'd been using. He's been reloading as long as I've known him, and knowing him, I SERIOUSLY have my doubts that the mishap was on him.
 
RUGER said:
One of the owners of knight told me if everyone knew the small difference between projection and explosion nobody would own one.
That was after I asked when they were gonna get in on the smokeless train.
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Flintlocks are much safer…..

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😎🤣
 
So from what I came across because I'm curious on these kinds of things, there were THREE LAWSUITS with the stainless Savage ML and an expert testified to the effect that the STAINLESS guns had a defect in the metallurgy.

My buddy couldn't remember the details but what I just came across on YouTube confirmed what he did recall. He never pursued compensation from Savage. He's just thankful he wasn't hurt.
 
As to the assumptions my old friend's mishap was on him, according to Randy Wakeman Savage quit accepting orders for the 10ML-II on 10/22/2012, which is around the same time his exploded on him.
 
I've had a stainless ml II since they first came out. Have used 3 different powders and it has performed very well. A few years ago I was sighting multiple guns at the range, and wanted to sight in a new scope on the muzzy. After a few rounds, I was about to load the primer, I felt the urge to check with ramrod and it was sticking out further than normal. In between loading and messing with other guns, I had double loaded the muzzy and did not realize it. I was confident that I only loaded one time, but after pulling the breech plug, I pushed out 2 loads. I had not done this in the 15 years shooting this muzzy, was meticulous in my process, and was shocked that I had done this. Guess it can happen when we get busy or distracted with other things.
 
I am not a metal expert or a pressure expert, but I just don't see how a Savage could explode like those in that video unless they were overloaded with powder, double loaded or just had two bullets double loaded. When the powder lights, that bullet you just pushed down the barrel is going to be pushed out. They are tight, but I have never hammered one in there.

I honestly think most muzzleloaders would fire the normal light loads that I shoot in mine. 4579 I think is the powder....tough to find now.
 
I cringe every time one of these threads are started. I'm no ballistics expert, nor do I profess to be. I have pressure tested extensively and experienced a double powder load twice. Thankfully I've never experienced a total double load. Anyone can make the mistake of discharging an SML. I've seen people shoot out a ramrod and also a loading funnel. You can never be too careful when loading, no matter who you are.

The beginning of the end for the MLII was an ex disgruntled employee of Savage who blew one up. Many of the blow-ups were due to accidental double loads and others were due to experimentation with non Savage approved loads. Folks were trying different combinations with no way of knowing what pressure they would produce. My extensive experience with QL and SML's allows me to accurately predict pressure within 1kpsi as proven by my pressure traces of said loads.

Rifle blow ups can happen. Try replacing your 72gr load of Reloder 22 in the old 300WM with 72gr of pistol powder. I promise it will not be a pleasant experience. That's why you should never have more than one powder open on the bench at any given time.

The first double powder load was a 50cal single shot with 72gr of N110 (2 loads of 36gr) under a 250gr saboted bullet. Quick Load estimates just under 80kpsi. Recoil was stiff but the barrel was NOT harmed in any way.

The other, I believe was a double powder load under a 300gr sabotless bullet. It was loaded by an elder in our SML group at a competition. my mistake was allowing another person to load the test load. I had my pressure test gun set up off the end of the firing line, testing loads on request. The barrel is 1.385" diameter straight with no taper to a length of 30". This is a super beefy barrel. When the load was fired, I knew it was not good. The pressure test equipment spiked to 113kpsi before the primer module ruptured which relieved some pressure. The barrel was bulged .005". Below is the actual trace that was recorded.

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