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Need sincere advice on CWD management.

Did you see herd damage before or after cwd was discovered?
Definitely before it was discovered and it continues to decline. You could try to argue that we have made it worse through excessive harvest but our harvest numbers have declined each year since it was discovered as well.

We hard a very large doe harvest two years before it was discovered which probably didn't help things since it was probably just getting a foothold on the herd.
 
Rob, glad to hear y'all aren't just jumping on the bandwagon and opening up more days of rifle season. Hopefully y'all don't ever do that.

Not sure why I didn't receive a survey this year but I did get to see one that was sent to a buddy of mine. Asking if someone would be in favor of opening up their private land to volunteers or state employees to eradicate deer blew my mind. I get why it was asked but hopefully it was just a feeler to see what kind of feedback y'all would get, and I hope it was all very negative.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by no means, but hearing ones say they'll certainly find cwd this year in Ky since it's the last year of testing and then it coming true sure would make someone think on that if they got to thinking too hard. Then just so happening to be found from a county that wasn't even in the surveillance zone.

I don't have your answers you want and can't give much feedback as the best route to go. But in my opinion eradicating deer to stop cwd isn't the way to go. Some will live with it, some will die of it, and life goes on.

The Western states didn't do anything drastic and they have rebounded. I'd be willing to say probably 50-75 percent of the deer in TN that are killed and tested positive had gotten cwd and beat it.

Thank you for asking for opinions and feeling like us KY hunters and landowners have a voice in the matter!
I'd love to see the science on the deer that beat CWD. Everything I've read says it's 100% fatal. That's like saying that dementia patients spontaneously heal themselves. I would also like to see the article on how the western states have rebounded from CWD. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean the herd is healing itself. I don't mean any insult but this is just wishful thinking.
 
Well somebody with a math degree can tell you the odds of what will happen if the herd stays the same and a set time line of how long they live how fast it can be caught, at some point the 2 lines will converge and deaths will out do the total population of live births when hunting numbers are put in. Managing the habitat isn't the problem here, no known method other than no deer to spread it is about the only option, folks can theorize all day long but no data to support much other than limited contact to slow the disease.
 
Definitely before it was discovered and it continues to decline. You could try to argue that we have made it worse through excessive harvest but our harvest numbers have declined each year since it was discovered as well.

We hard a very large doe harvest two years before it was discovered which probably didn't help things since it was probably just getting a foothold on the herd.
Certainly will not argue with you...your living in the middle of it...respect your observations...but I will say that if the very large doe harvest hadnt taken place then "maybe" the effects of CWD wouldnt currently be as apparent? No way to know?
But it is interesting that you mention harvest numbers have declined each year since it was discovered...so the previous large doe harvest didnt really stop anything...maybe it slowed it some? Again, no way to know for certain.
 
Well somebody with a math degree can tell you the odds of what will happen if the herd stays the same and a set time line of how long they live how fast it can be caught, at some point the 2 lines will converge and deaths will out do the total population of live births when hunting numbers are put in. Managing the habitat isn't the problem here, no known method other than no deer to spread it is about the only option, folks can theorize all day long but no data to support much other than limited contact to slow the disease.
Then manage the habitat to increase birth success rates, reward predator control, improve the environment that deer live in. There are always opportunities for improvement with habitat that can help the herd. Dont hammer the herd.
For the math equation maybe we move where the 2 lines will converge by supporting the herd verses hammering them.
 
I agree with most of the postings here. Killing more deer isn't going to stop the spread of CWD. It might slow it down but the spread is inevitable and it will eventually be everywhere.

Years ago, "foot & mouth" disease was eliminated from the, US by destroying all sick cattle plus all that might have been exposed. the success in this endeavor might b,e driving the "kill the deer herd" mentality to control CWD.

In this instance it's virtually impossible to kill all the, animals in an area and the longevity of the infectious agent in the environment instead of relying on a "live host" to survive makes this pathogen uncontrollable by killing potential hosts.
 
How many fawns can a doe have at 1 time? I have never seen that Tn was lacking in food for deer, what about the new guy with 800 deer killed off the farm adjoining him?, who is going to pay to kill yotes? I don't feel it's the states job to reward folks, I have shot at every 1 I have had a chance to, when you work for a living it's hard to take time away from the family to take care of the problem, trapping is the best way to control them and how many folks will devote the time and $? , when you don't own the land folks don't see the need to work on the problems, it's easy to set back and spitball stuff without thinking it through all the way. $$$$ and time, sticking our heads in the dirt and say do nothing mother nature will cure it is a copout imo. Do you want twra to come onto your land and dictate everything that can and cant be done? ,what happens in 5-10 down the road when folks start turning up dead from this disease? who will catch the blame ? twra and folks will start attempting to sue, don't think that will happen? look at the thread about a canceled hotel reservation then get back to us lol. I'm not saying kill them all but they will need to be thinned down to a number, not sure what it is and not sure anybody knows,
 
My opinion, closely monitor any high fence enclosures. I suspect that's where all this mess here started, and it's been "overlooked". Just my opinion on that. If I had my way, they'd never be allowed. My guess is that there are quite a few of them around.

And good on you for realizing that the kill em all approach isn't a good thing.
 
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I live and hunt in the epicenter of CWD in TN (Fayette Co). Also have lots of close friends that live and hunt in Western KY. As someone else said, you're in a no-win situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not sure I can give much advice on how to handle this. I will say be transparent. We know our deer herd has really declined in our area. But why is up for debate. We know CWD is killing animals. We know despite what people say is TWRA's "kill em all" attitude our harvest numbers have actually dropped significantly.

My biggest complaint with TWRA is they are not transparent on how many deer are being killed in each county via snipers and/or depredation permits.
 
A great step in the right direction. Personally, I don't feel eradication is the answer, you catch many healthy animals with that net. Since it has been shown that predators and scavengers also spread the disease, eradicating deer does not make sense. Eliminate baiting, enforce transportation protocols and allow hunters to maintain their own herds.
 
Well somebody with a math degree can tell you the odds of what will happen if the herd stays the same and a set time line of how long they live how fast it can be caught, at some point the 2 lines will converge and deaths will out do the total population of live births when hunting numbers are put in. Managing the habitat isn't the problem here, no known method other than no deer to spread it is about the only option, folks can theorize all day long but no data to support much other than limited contact to slow the disease.

If a deer can live for 2yrs after contracting it then a doe born with the disease can potentially birth 4 fawns before she dies, if she has twins. The species is not in danger of collapse. I believe nature will remedy the issue via genetic mutation same way it does every other issue with every other species. I truly don't believe we humans are going to have much positive influence on it but for sure can have negative influence by killing off large numbers of the herd. I vote leave it be.

Reports have been coming out about genetically resistant animals, so nature is already hard at work. Eventually the resistant genes will survive while the weak die, and the herd will be that much stronger yet.
 
it's easy to set back and spitball stuff without thinking it through all the way. $$$$ and time, sticking our heads in the dirt and say do nothing mother nature will cure it is a copout imo.
Understand what your saying....but theorizing (and spitballing ideas) is what the Op asked for...ideas or suggestions that may help...and CWD or no CWD...reducing predators, improving fawning cover and managing habitat are all benifical to the herd...our conversations and suggestions shouldnt be driven only by what people may or may not have the time or resources to do...sound management is what it is...we have to choose as land managers or land owners what were able to do.
 
So why weren't transportation laws of deer carcasses not put into effect for all states back when cwd popped up out west or in the north since that's usually the first thing a state does now???
 
CWD while been detected out west decades ago, is still very new. Nobody knows anything concrete except that it exists. My question is where is it being tested for that it's not being found? We don't hear about that. We only hear about it showing up where it's tested for, which tells me it's likely in far more areas than not. It's quite plausibly everywhere and always has been. We didn't know because we weren't testing. High fence deer farms show concentrated doses because of concentrated population. Time will eventually tell the story but for now until we know some absolutes, I feel the best approach is simply observation and transparency.

I also echo what DR says about habitat management. Good fawning cover and nutrition allows for deer to be as healthy and fertile as possible while we work on learning about the disease. No it's not a cure but it's what we got, something we actually can do. If the herd is doomed like some think it is then it needs every edge it can get, and a healthy high population gives it that edge against a disease that kills inside 2yrs. They can't build an immunity if they no longer exist.
 
If a landowner can't afford to fence his property, I don't see how he can afford to improve it for wildlife, not sure why you think it will cure or stop CWD , yotes can run the thickets just as well or better than deer, fawns will have problems in any cover.
 
I don't suggest paying landowners to kill the herd as page 2 indicates.
 

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If a landowner can't afford to fence his property, I don't see how he can afford to improve it for wildlife, not sure why you think it will cure or stop CWD , yotes can run the thickets just as well or better than deer, fawns will have problems in any cover.
I havent seen where anyone said improving the habitat would cure or stop CWD? As Ski said: "Good fawning cover and nutrition allows for deer to be as healthy and fertile as possible while we work on learning about the disease. No it's not a cure but it's what we got, something we actually can do"

Again...the Op asked for ideas and suggestions and improving habitat can be something people can do....something as simple as running a chainsaw for a few hours one Saturday...let sunlight to the forest floor...create more food and cover for little to no cost...give more fawns a fighting chance at survival....a cure for CWD?...no, but its something we can do that is of benefit to herd health.
 
My name is Robin Floyd. I have been on TNDeer over 25 years. When I joined, I lived in Martin, TN but for over 20 years I have lived in Murray, KY. I am friends with several folks on TNDeer. Heck, Ruger probably saved my life once when he helped me drag out a huge doe a quarter of a mile thru a muddy cornfield to my truck. I am currently the Kentucky Dept of Fish & Wildlife Commissioner for the !st Congressional District, the 14 western most counties in KY. We recently discovered our first case of CWD in Ballard Co, KY, in far northwestern KY, in my District, probably 50 miles from TN. Since the discovery of the CWD positive deer in Henry Co, TN 3 years ago, the 5 counties within 20 miles of where this deer was found (Fulton, Hickman, Graves, Calloway, & Marshall) have been in a Surveillance Zone, with restrictions on baiting & minerals, import & export of unprocessed deer, & mandatory check stations. I was born in Fulton, grew up in Hickman, hunt in Graves, live in Calloway, & work in Marshall, so I'm invested. These restrictions have been fairly well tolerated. Many turkey hunters want baiting banned anyway due to aflatoxin. We have several processors in the Surveillance Zone so that hasn't been a huge issue. The first year, we had 96% compliance with the in-person check stations which we tried to make as pleasant & as much like the check stations when I was a kid as possible. (We gave away free coffee, hats, & thermoses & encouraged hunters to socialize & see what other hunters had harvested. There are no old country stores left but we had most of these check stations at processors where a lot of people were coming anyway.) KDFWR has always used the more accurate 2-step testing, BTW.

I recently read on the Tennessee Deer Hunters page that well over 90% of their members disagree with TN's CWD management plan. I am asking for advice because KDFWR need to put together a management plan that most of our hunters will go along with. We have to have hunter buy-in because deer hunters manage the deer. Thru surveys and a recent in-person CWD forum where the positive deer was harvested (a 2 1/2 y/o buck that was tending a doe.), we have learned the following:

1. Hunters want to be given the opportunity to manage any overpopulation first. If an area has too many deer, hunters want the first opportunity to rightsize the herd. If an area isn't overpopulated, they want the seasons to stay as they are. I agree with this.

2. Hunters are not in favor of killing all the deer to save the deer. The cure doesn't need to be worse than the disease. They especially don't want targeted removal in Jan & Feb where snipers kill shed bucks & pregnant does. also agree with this.

3. They don't want another modern firearm season. Right now, our modern firearm season is peak of the rut for 16 days. This is when the huge majority of our harvest occurs. Traditionally, are seasons have been set to maximize herd health & hunter opportunity. We now have over 1 million animals in our deer herd. We also have significant agricultural damage by deer in my district, a fact we can't ignore. If deer are harvested due to depredation, KDFWR has been successful in taking refrigerated trailers for those deer which have then been donated to Hunters for the Hungry, rather than wasted.

4. Some hunters have proposed expanding a early season (Early Youth & Early MZ) from 2 days to 9 with adult hunters being able to use pistols, slugs, & straight wall cartridges as well as archery & MZ in order to create more opportunity for youth & for mentors to hunt at the same time as youth. We have tons of deer so that would in no way hurt the resource.

The KDFWR Commission, of which I am a part, will almost certainly expand the Surveillance Zone to include Ballard Co & the 2 counties next door, for a total of 8 Surveillance Zone Counties, with the same restrictions as the original 5 SZ counties. Our goal is to slow CWD. We are well aware that eradication is unlikely, although that apparently did happen in NY. We know that the impact of CWD isn't catastrophic due to the up to two year time between a deer becoming infected & becoming sick. (We know EHD kills many more deer & much faster than CWD.) We also have to take into consideration the impact of CWD on people. Outfitters, guides, land owners, processors, and others who make their living from deer hunting have asked that we try to contain CWD down here in the far western part of the state.

Now here is where I need your help. Obviously, this is a controversial & complex issue. If you have a good understanding of CWD and it's social implications, I would welcome any advice of suggestion you might have. Please only comment if you're trying to help. I've already heard all the noise that CWD is not real, It's a hoax, nothing can be done, money grab, government conspiracy theory, etc. All 9 members of our Commission are decent men who grew up hunting & fishing. We all serve without a salary or any perks whatsoever. We were all appointed by the Governor but I've never met him & certainly never contributed to him. He's a city guy & hunting, fishing, & conservation aren't even on his radar screen. Finally, KY has received no huge grants to study CWD because we haven't had it until just this deer season.

I believe most people that hunt & fish have pretty good common sense. My only desire is to see hunters get the the first chance to manage this problem.

Thanks
sir i wish you were in charge of the TWRA! i really dont know the answer to your question but this is how any wildlife commissioner or agent should talk to the public!!! if your ever interested in running the TWRA, you have my vote!!
 

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