It's all about the $

[tellico4x4]

What Happens If Nonresident License Prices Keep Climbing?

It’s supply and demand. The state’s residents own the game, full stop. States should cater to residents first. These statements pop up in every conversation and on every hunting forum when it comes to the resident/nonresident debate. The precedent set decades ago in the courts set up the system...

www.themeateater.com

 

[tellico4x4]

MOVED TO GENERAL FORUM FOR MORE TRACTION - SORRY

 

[JCDEERMAN]

It's turned into a rich man's sport. I went for over 12 years and prices continued to climb - the license prices directly fall on the state(s). The lease prices are mostly due to private. But hey, that's supply and demand. If people are willing to pay it, it will only trend upward. As for me, I'd likely say I'm done. As more and more of folks like me that have been religious about it, quit going, there may be some correction.

If I had to guess, I'd say it would start in the private sector (land leases and lodging) because they will get hit first and will be the first ones smart enough to correct the price. The second would be the license prices (but I have my doubts those would ever drop). There will still be tons of license sales due to all the public ground. As for me and public ground out west, it's for the birds. When I hike for 6 hours from 8k feet up to 10.5k and get up there thinking no one would ever find me, only to look down the trail and see two beautiful young women on horseback???? I've seen the hunting slowly deteriorate in CO over the last decade due to the crowds. Our last time out, 10 days with no bugling and no sightings. With the crowds of I've seen, I don't see prices coming down anytime soon.

Until that happens, I'll put all my time and money into a hopefully extraordinary dove field for this fall.

 

[th88]

Kind of ironic MEATEATER puts out an article on this. And they are exactly right:

"And it'll be nobody's fault but our own."

The hunting industry and associated social media is what has been driving this madhouse of ever-increasing demand!

 

[AT Hiker]

Kind of ironic MEATEATER puts out an article on this. And they are exactly right:

"And it'll be nobody's fault but our own."

The hunting industry and associated social media is what has been driving this madhouse of ever-increasing demand!

I am not the creator of this phase but it is by far the most accurate term I've heard/read for the majority of social media hunting influencers….

"Modern day market hunters"

That is all they are. Killing for content. Should be illegal.

 

[megalomaniac]

It's not just the SM 'influencers'

A major problem are the outfitters out west. Those that can afford to hire an outfitter to guide them on public land for $7,000 per elk hunt are much more likely to spend $2000 on the tag. Those who cannot afford $2000 for the tag for a self guided hunt weren't ever going to spend $7,000 on the outfitter... That frees up more tags for more outfitted hunts both on private as well as public.

I'm in agreement that the SM dudes are a large part of the problem.... but I think the outfitters on public lands are just a culpable. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see outfitters limited to private lands only.

Heck, last year I was offered a FREE fully guided outfitted hunt in the west Wyoming wilderness in exchange for putting in as a group with my 15 points with 2 paying clients who did not have enough points to draw the unit. I would have taken them up on the offer, but had the Alaska trip planned.

 

[DeerCamp]

It's not just the SM 'influencers'

A major problem are the outfitters out west. Those that can afford to hire an outfitter to guide them on public land for $7,000 per elk hunt are much more likely to spend $2000 on the tag. Those who cannot afford $2000 for the tag for a self guided hunt weren't ever going to spend $7,000 on the outfitter... That frees up more tags for more outfitted hunts both on private as well as public.

I'm in agreement that the SM dudes are a large part of the problem.... but I think the outfitters on public lands are just a culpable. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see outfitters limited to private lands only.

Heck, last year I was offered a FREE fully guided outfitted hunt in the west Wyoming wilderness in exchange for putting in as a group with my 15 points with 2 paying clients who did not have enough points to draw the unit. I would have taken them up on the offer, but had the Alaska trip planned.

This just happened in New Mexico recently.

It'll take you like 30 years on average to draw NR DIY Muley now. Used to be closer to 10 years. It's state sponsored welfare for outfitters.

On the other hand, if you do go with an outfitter, the draw rate is like 95% and allows you to plan with a lot of certainty.

Just have to decide if its worth $3K

 

[BPhunter]

It's turned into a rich man's sport. I went for over 12 years and prices continued to climb - the license prices directly fall on the state(s). The lease prices are mostly due to private. But hey, that's supply and demand. If people are willing to pay it, it will only trend upward. As for me, I'd likely say I'm done. As more and more of folks like me that have been religious about it, quit going, there may be some correction.

If I had to guess, I'd say it would start in the private sector (land leases and lodging) because they will get hit first and will be the first ones smart enough to correct the price. The second would be the license prices (but I have my doubts those would ever drop). There will still be tons of license sales due to all the public ground. As for me and public ground out west, it's for the birds. When I hike for 6 hours from 8k feet up to 10.5k and get up there thinking no one would ever find me, only to look down the trail and see two beautiful young women on horseback???? I've seen the hunting slowly deteriorate in CO over the last decade due to the crowds. Our last time out, 10 days with no bugling and no sightings. With the crowds of I've seen, I don't see prices coming down anytime soon.

Until that happens, I'll put all my time and money into a hopefully extraordinary dove field for this fall.

You are not wrong. We live in the Nazi state of Colorado. However, we hunt muzzle loading season at above 9-11,000 feet. This past ML season was very quiet. Very few hunters during the week and danged few weekend warriors. A Lot of the folks that hunt the mountains rarely venture 50-100 yds off the road. Some ride the roads all day. I feel your pain friend. Out of state licenses have gotten ridiculous. Quite frankly, I'd rather hunt New Mexico for elk, but, for the cost of an elk tag I can get a 1/4-1/2 of beef.

 

[MidTennFisher]

I am not the creator of this phase but it is by far the most accurate term I've heard/read for the majority of social media hunting influencers….

"Modern day market hunters"

That is all they are. Killing for content. Should be illegal.

I would argue, and I know this is going to kick a hornet's nest, that most (maybe all) outfitters can be lumped into that same category. They are nothing more than pimps that prostitute out our wild game for profit.

And they lock up so much private land that used to be accessible with door knocking, polite conversations, and maybe helping to fix a fence or gift them a backstrap. People with financial means, and the strong desire to be a social media luminary, are paying $10k without hesitation to take advantage of an easy opportunity to kill mature bulls and bucks with an outfitter.

I do think social media hunting/influencers have greatly exacerbated this problem. First it was Midwestern waterfowl hunting that was destroyed by outfitters whoring out every good field. Western big game hunting is in progress.

 

[AT Hiker]

I would argue, and I know this is going to kick a hornet's nest, that most (maybe all) outfitters can be lumped into that same category. They are nothing more than pimps that prostitute out our wild game for profit.

And they lock up so much private land that used to be accessible with door knocking, polite conversations, and maybe helping to fix a fence or gift them a backstrap. People with financial means, and the strong desire to be a social media luminary, are paying $10k without hesitation to take advantage of an easy opportunity to kill mature bulls and bucks with an outfitter.

I do think social media hunting/influencers have greatly exacerbated this problem. First it was Midwestern waterfowl hunting that was destroyed by outfitters whoring out every good field. Western big game hunting is in progress.

The outfitter situation has gotten worse, no doubt. We are literally living in a world now where outfitters are on the states game agency welfare dole.
Look no further than MT for proof and the WY wilderness law.

I'm not 100% anti outfitter but the trend we are in doesn't paint a pretty picture for them. It's rather simple, we cannot compete with them and it shouldn't even be a competition…that's my problem.

 

[DeerCamp]

The outfitter situation has gotten worse, no doubt. We are literally living in a world now where outfitters are on the states game agency welfare dole.
Look no further than MT for proof and the WY wilderness law.

I'm not 100% anti outfitter but the trend we are in doesn't paint a pretty picture for them. It's rather simple, we cannot compete with them and it shouldn't even be a competition…that's my problem.

My dad is 65 this year. We grew up in New Mexico. Recently he decided he wants to go out and have one last Muley hunt.

The outfitter option allows us an almost guaranteed draw, with the added bonus that he isn't going to be able to get out and hike 20 miles anymore.

So I like that it's an option, but I don't like that it makes the DIY almost OIL.

 

[BPhunter]

My dad is 65 this year. We grew up in New Mexico. Recently he decided he wants to go out and have one last Muley hunt.

The outfitter option allows us an almost guaranteed draw, with the added bonus that he isn't going to be able to get out and hike 20 miles anymore.

So I like that it's an option, but I don't like that it makes the DIY almost OIL.

Seriously, I don't know where you hunt, but we have never had to hike 20 miles to get a muley or elk. At 75 we hunted the Greenhorn Wilderness and we usually hike several miles a day, and that is good for exercise and health.

 

[DeerCamp]

Seriously, I don't know where you hunt, but we have never had to hike 20 miles to get a muley or elk. At 75 we hunted the Greenhorn Wilderness and we usually hike several miles a day, and that is good for exercise and health.

Biggest issue for him is not health, but a bum knee that causes a lot of problems. He walk on flat ground ok, but hills will wear it down pretty quick.

 

[themanpcl]

What Happens If Nonresident License Prices Keep Climbing?

It’s supply and demand. The state’s residents own the game, full stop. States should cater to residents first. These statements pop up in every conversation and on every hunting forum when it comes to the resident/nonresident debate. The precedent set decades ago in the courts set up the system...

www.themeateater.com

Interesting topic. I began hunting out of state in 2008. I discovered the permit/license fees were high but I figured they are just using out of state money to fund their wildlife efforts. You know, like the city of nashville bilks ooodles of money from motel fees, taxi fees etc... from visitors. So this brings up different feelings by state residents. I have encountered some that really aren't aware of how much their state benefits monetarily from out of state hunters. They see them as "coming in here to take my deer"... Understanding that this only applies to public land - The questions I ask are 1) Is the state just offering hunting to out of state folks for the monetary gain or are they taking into consideration the effect on the wildlife population? Most do control the number of permits sold and limits on harvests by out of state hunters. 2) The fact that the wildlife and public hunting land in theory belong to the people of the state, shouldn't offering out of state access be subject to a vote/referendum by the state? The state should have to explain why they are selling state resources for profit. 3) Does the state take into consideration the effect on residents who only have public land to hunt? These people should always be put first. If the state wants to price out the regular hunting guys, it is within their right to so. If Il does that, I'll miss it but such is life.

 

[megalomaniac]

BUT... a LOT of game out west is on FEDERAL land owned by all taxpayers, not just the residents of that state.

 

[Antler Daddy]

It should cost me no more to hunt deer on TN federal land than it does do hunt deer on Wyoming federal land. Thats the way I see it.

 

[MickThompson]

BUT... a LOT of game out west is on FEDERAL land owned by all taxpayers, not just the residents of that state.

The feds may control the land but the wildlife is still the state's

 

[AT Hiker]

The wild animals are under the states protection. Doesn't matter what land, within that state, it resides on. I wouldn't have it any other way either. Imo, it is what makes our wildlife model the best.

A wolf in SW Wyoming can be legally hunted. Once that wolf crosses into CO, it is then off limits.
A elk in the Black Hills of WY can be legally hunted by a non resident with a tag. That same elk crosses into SD and only a resident of SD with an elk tag can hunt it. NR are not granted tags in SD.

Watching a giant Bison in Yellowstone in a family vacation? That dude is off limits to hunting, let him cross into MT when someone has a Bison tag…dead meat.

 

[AT Hiker]

It should cost me no more to hunt deer on TN federal land than it does do hunt deer on Wyoming federal land. Thats the way I see it.

Move to WY and become a resident. Cheap tags.

 

[Antler Daddy]

Us federal land is us
Federal land. These are not Indian reservations.