Growing Mature Bucks

[Ski]

That makes a lot of sense. While I don't know where, I know it wasn't in our "hill country" where those deer were hanging out. I'm sure there are some better food sources down low around us. The duck river is a few miles from us as the crow flies. Those areas have validity

That's the beautiful mystery of deer hunting that keeps me engaged. We always focus so much on the fall shift, for good reason, but in my experience there are numerous shifts that occur throughout the year. I always look forward to the winter shift when major rut is over because it never fails that some bucks I've never seen before show up to eat on my plots, and some of them set up residence. Then again in spring green up I see another dispersal, and yet another reshuffle of the deck mid summer about the time velvet antlers are big enough to get caught & damaged on vegetation.

Point being, a whole lot can change between now and next season. It's been a very long time since I've been genuinely concerned about the up coming season, and never have I been as concerned as now. Although on paper I did well this season, it was a grind and near complete contradiction to the macro patterns I thought I had a good understanding of. But then again last season was chock full of great bucks, intense rut, and seems everybody was having a banner year .... except me. I experienced all the same action and my cameras showed the best trophy potential I'd seen to date, but I never got a good opportunity. This year sucked and I tagged 3 good bucks in two states. So who knows? I love it. Wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[BSK]

It's been a very long time since I've been genuinely concerned about the up coming season, and never have I been as concerned as now.

I'm deeply concerned about next season and several after that. The VERY poor condition I saw a lot of deer in, the low antler growth, and all this going into an acornless winter, I worry about the future ramifications. Many of the nutritional stresses I'm seeing now - and expect to occur over the winter - can have long-term impacts on future deer growth and development.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I always look forward to the winter shift when major rut is over because it never fails that some bucks I've never seen before show up to eat on my plots, and some of them set up residence. Then again in spring green up I see another dispersal, and yet another reshuffle of the deck mid summer about the time velvet antlers are big enough to get caught & damaged on vegetation.

I can't say for certain that we get new bucks really late in the season, but we frequently get some of the bucks that left us in Aug-Sept. One 3.5 showed back up in early December and has been all over the place. Haven't seen him since the end of July.

 

[BSK]

I always look forward to the winter shift when major rut is over because it never fails that some bucks I've never seen before show up to eat on my plots, and some of them set up residence.

We see that, but it's after the season is over. Usually mid-January. Got the guy below last year just after season closed. Hard to see in the snapshots, but in the videos it's clear he had somewhere around 15 scoreable points.

 

[Ski]

I'm deeply concerned about next season and several after that. The VERY poor condition I saw a lot of deer in, the low antler growth, and all this going into an acornless winter, I worry about the future ramifications. Many of the nutritional stresses I'm seeing now - and expect to occur over the winter - can have long-term impacts on future deer growth and development.

Have you considered possibly supplemental feed or alfalfa hay? Im not even sure how much it would take to offset starvation. But what else could be done?

 

[BSK]

Have you considered possibly supplemental feed or alfalfa hay? Im not even sure how much it would take to offset starvation. But what else could be done?

Besides what I've done to increase the volume of natural foods on my property, so many known and unknown negative consequences exist for supplemental feeding, that I'm going to let Nature take her course. Perhaps this is just another filter through which Nature strengthens deer populations for the future. But that doesn't mean we aren't going to see lower body weights and antler development per age-class for a couple of years.

 

[Lincoln Co Archer]

I'm deeply concerned about next season and several after that. The VERY poor condition I saw a lot of deer in, the low antler growth, and all this going into an acornless winter, I worry about the future ramifications. Many of the nutritional stresses I'm seeing now - and expect to occur over the winter - can have long-term impacts on future deer growth and development.

I can echo this as well. A lot of our deer just look plain poor this year especially the 2-3 year old bucks that are extremely worn down from the rut. Seriously concerned we are are going to have a lot of deer not make it to spring green-up.

 

[BSK]

It took a couple of years for the effects of the 2007 acornless year, drought, heat and EHD outbreak to fade away. But again, I guess this is Nature's way of thinning the less fit.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Just add a bit to this . . . .

A growing number of hunters are defining a "shooter" buck as much by age as by antlers.

Just to be clear, antlers matter, but nearly every year, I pass up some 3 1/2's with higher scoring antlers than a mature buck I target (and may or may not kill). Most years, I also pass up some 4 1/2 & older bucks because of their below par (and/or broken up) antlers.

I'm not complaining, and am very happy with my style of hunting. Just pointing out that when one focuses greatly on age, this has the additional side effect of selecting by body size. Most mature bucks should have larger bodies than most 3 1/2s.

Even if the mature buck weighs less on a certain date, he will often "appear" to have a larger body due to greater chest depth, wider body, greater belly sag, and maybe a slightly larger skeletal frame. A 4 1/2 will often "appear" to have a larger body than a 3 1/2, even when both weigh the same. This is even more the case when comparing a 5 1/2 to a 3 1/2.

All of my "target" bucks are 5 1/2 or older.
I believe it's also fair to say I'm selecting as much by body size as by antlers,
simply because of the average size differences between mature bucks
and bucks 3 1/2 & younger.

Me and several others I know shoot by body size(estimated age), on lower end bucks. We may shoot a lesser scoring buck that is estimated to be older, and let a higher scoring deer we believe to be younger walk. The buck in the picture below, I watched for years. He was at least 6 1/2 when i finally decided to shoot him. He was well over 200lbs. on the hoof. He was a bully. I hated to use a tag on him, but when I did, 3 other mature bucks showed up within a week of his departure, including a 140" 10 pt. The 10pt I believe was a 4 1/2 yr old. I will be the first to admit, I would likely not pass a 140" deer regardless of age, but a 120" young deer will always get a pass if I can determine what I think his age is via pictures. When a deer shows up that isn't on cam I get nervous, because I haven't had the chance to study pictures and I am afraid I may shoot a young deer. It has happened, and I will likely do it again, but I try not to. To me, that is one of the greatest benefits of cameras. It gives us the opportunity to analyze our deer and become familiar with them so when you do see them, you already have an idea of what you are looking at.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I passed this young 9 pt. this weekend, he would definitely outscore the older 6 pt, but because of age he got a pass.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I can see the point you are making regarding high grading based on body size as well as antlers. I tend to target 3.5 and older bucks as my goal. They are usually larger in body and rack than the younger bucks.

However in a hunting situation if the body appears larger than a typical 2.5 yo buck, I immediately get ready to shoot the buck regardless of antlers. When hunting thick woods, there is often a short window of time to analyze and make decisions. If I wait I often miss out on the opportunity to kill the buck.

And that is why having pictures to analyze is so critical in helping make a sound decision.

 

[BSK]

To me, that is one of the greatest benefits of cameras. It gives us the opportunity to analyze our deer and become familiar with them so when you do see them, you already have an idea of what you are looking at.View attachment 161261

HH,

First, that buck is a STUD!

Second, I couldn't agree more about that benefit of cameras. I realize the hard-core cameras users will understand, but most hunters don't believe me when I tell them the instant I see a buck I know who he is and whether I'm going to shoot. I've looked at and analyzed my camera data in such depth each year that I already have a "hit list" in my mind of which bucks I will kill given the opportunity. I know all of the bucks' racks by heart.

And that's why this year, when I saw a buck I don't have on camera (first time in many years), I was in such a quandary. At about 160 yards across a small clear-cut, his body looked mature through binos, but his rack wasn't much. As he SLOWLY worked my way, I bet I changed my mind ten times as to whether I was going to shoot or not! I honestly didn't make the final decision to shoot until he was right in front of me.

 

[Ski]

Me and several others I know shoot by body size(estimated age), on lower end bucks. We may shoot a lesser scoring buck that is estimated to be older, and let a higher scoring deer we believe to be younger walk. The buck in the picture below, I watched for years. He was at least 6 1/2 when i finally decided to shoot him. He was well over 200lbs. on the hoof. He was a bully. I hated to use a tag on him, but when I did, 3 other mature bucks showed up within a week of his departure, including a 140" 10 pt. The 10pt I believe was a 4 1/2 yr old. I will be the first to admit, I would likely not pass a 140" deer regardless of age, but a 120" young deer will always get a pass if I can determine what I think his age is via pictures. When a deer shows up that isn't on cam I get nervous, because I haven't had the chance to study pictures and I am afraid I may shoot a young deer. It has happened, and I will likely do it again, but I try not to. To me, that is one of the greatest benefits of cameras. It gives us the opportunity to analyze our deer and become familiar with them so when you do see them, you already have an idea of what you are looking at.

Couldn't agree more, and IMO you "wasted" a tag on an awesome buck! Congrats on that stud. My bully wasn't near that big racked because he'd broken off all but 4 tines, but body was enormous. I've only experienced that once in my life and like you experienced, as soon as he was gone better bucks began showing up.

I also agree completely on the trail cam advantage. I can't think of any reason more obvious than that for having them. Like BSK says, I know every buck by heart and recognize them immediately. Cams have saved a lot more deer than they've helped kill.

 

[BSK]

Cams have saved a lot more deer than they've helped kill.

You said a mouthful there!

Last year, I see this guy coming across a powerline right-of-way. Without having camera data, he might have gotten shot. But from camera data, I knew he was our best 2 1/2 and he got a pass.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

HH,

First, that buck is a STUD!

Second, I couldn't agree more about that benefit of cameras. I realize the hard-core cameras users will understand, but most hunters don't believe me when I tell them the instant I see a buck I know who he is and whether I'm going to shoot. I've looked at and analyzed my camera data in such depth each year that I already have a "hit list" in my mind of which bucks I will kill given the opportunity. I know all of the bucks' racks by heart.

And that's why this year, when I saw a buck I don't have on camera (first time in many years), I was in such a quandary. At about 160 yards across a small clear-cut, his body looked mature through binos, but his rack wasn't much. As he SLOWLY worked my way, I bet I changed my mind ten times as to whether I was going to shoot or not! I honestly didn't make the final decision to shoot until he was right in front of me.

I had that happen on three different bucks this year. I can't explain how this happens. I am running 14 cameras on a relatively small track of land, it is a miracle that there were three bucks that I didn't get pictures of. Two of them I only saw once, and one I saw multiple times. All three were "shooters" rack wise, but I was so taken back trying to analyze them that I didn't shoot any of them. I am still waiting on my late season range shift. Usually for me it happens in early December, but it has not happened yet. I was banking on it heavily, as I had a late season shifter last year that is an absolute toad. He was nocturnal last year until the last week on season and I decided to give him a pass even though he would have been one of the best bucks that I have killed. It is quite depressing that he hasn't showed up this year. I had pictures of him after season so I know he survived the season, just not sure if he survived mother nature. Here he is.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

Couldn't agree more, and IMO you "wasted" a tag on an awesome buck! Congrats on that stud. My bully wasn't near that big racked because he'd broken off all but 4 tines, but body was enormous. I've only experienced that once in my life and like you experienced, as soon as he was gone better bucks began showing up.

I also agree completely on the trail cam advantage. I can't think of any reason more obvious than that for having them. Like BSK says, I know every buck by heart and recognize them immediately. Cams have saved a lot more deer than they've helped kill.

This is one of the bucks that moved in shortly after the bully's demise.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

You said a mouthful there!

Last year, I see this guy coming across a powerline right-of-way. Without having camera data, he might have gotten shot. But from camera data, I knew he was our best 2 1/2 and he got a pass.

beautiful buck with a ton of potential!

 

[Ski]

This is one of the bucks that moved in shortly after the bully's demise.

Ha! That's awesome!!! Way better buck.

This guy came in literally the day after I shot my bully buck this year. Got them back to back days. He was previously a regular but stayed away this season until the aggressive buck was down.

The bully was not much smaller racked but was a 6pt with broken off brows, and his body was a solid 50-75lbs bigger than the 10pt. I'm conflicted on the age of the bully because on the hoof he looked enormous, had a full neck & saggy brisket, grey face, but the rack didn't match the body. I know for sure from cam history the 10 was 5.5yrs. His rack has barely changed a wink in three years. But his body was small and his face looks young. He did have a full neck & saggy brisket, just a small youthfully colored & clean body. These southern deer are proving a challenge to age. If not for cams I'm not sure I could estimate age on the hoof sometimes like I do on northern deer.

 

[Ski]

Last year, I see this guy coming across a powerline right-of-way. Without having camera data, he might have gotten shot. But from camera data, I knew he was our best 2 1/2 and he got a pass.

Those are the ones that get me excited!!! Unfortunately they get the neighbors excited too, so excited they shoot them

 

[BSK]

Picked up some new bucks starting the 17th.