Well did it work?

[Shed Hunter]

Statewide, it's made a HUGE difference

plus a cull

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What makes you think it has made a huge difference statewide?

What defines a cull?

Do you think all inferior 2.5 y.o. won't be superior 4.5 y.o.?

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Look at TWRAs age structure of bucks harvested. Yes, the age structure was increasing since the limit was reduced from 11 to 3 bucks, but it has CONTINUED to improve after reduction in the limits despite most biologists feeling we had reached the point of dimishing returns.

I think 99.9% of inferior 2.5 yos will never become superior 4.5yo. But thats just basic deer biology. Nothing fancy there. Genetics suck, but they are what they are. You cant change them, no matter how old you let that deer get.

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Agreed. Antler restrictions will only make this worse. Especially the 4 on one side restriction. 99.99% of superior 4.5 year olds had at least 4 on one side at 2.5

 

[tree_ghost]

I don't know if it's from the reg change or the fact that I'm improving at my craft or maybe I just got lucky with the herd this year but I'm in more big mature bucks than ever. I almost tagged out yesterday morning but I'm kinda glad I didn't before the rut. Now come December I may regret saying that....


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[JCDEERMAN]

I don't know if it's from the reg change or the fact that I'm improving at my craft or maybe I just got lucky with the herd this year but I'm in more big mature bucks than ever. I almost tagged out yesterday morning but I'm kinda glad I didn't before the rut. Now come December I may regret saying that....


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HA that's the only downside to me. I've been on both ends of the spectrum - I've been tagged out by 11/10, and I've also passed on several bucks I would have likely shot if I hadn't already killed one......only to not fill that second tag

 

[JeepKuntry]

No noticeable difference. TBH East Tn needed to drop the antlerless limits to help recovery from ehd a few years ago and they did not.

 

[Headhunter]

Statewide, it's made a HUGE difference

plus a cull

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What makes you think it has made a huge difference statewide?

What defines a cull?

Do you think all inferior 2.5 y.o. won't be superior 4.5 y.o.?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Look at TWRAs age structure of bucks harvested. Yes, the age structure was increasing since the limit was reduced from 11 to 3 bucks, but it has CONTINUED to improve after reduction in the limits despite most biologists feeling we had reached the point of dimishing returns.

I think 99.9% of inferior 2.5 yos will never become superior 4.5yo. But thats just basic deer biology. Nothing fancy there. Genetics suck, but they are what they are. You cant change them, no matter how old you let that deer get.

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Sorry, but I believe the TWRA has no clue as to age structure of deer killed. There is basically no data collection on that aspect deer killing in Tennessee. Never has been.

Really, 99.9 percent of 2.5 years olds will never become better bucks. That is wrong also. Way to many areas that "never had any decent bucks, no good genetics, bad soil, etc." and the hunting is restricted, or access is lost completely for whatever reason, and in a few years there are all kinds of bucks, nice ones, trophy bucks, and the occasional giant. True, not every deer will grow into a good deer and most likely many will never be much over the average, but to say 99.9 percent will not be better deer??? That goes against anything I have ever personally seen. Also those areas that suddenly have little or zero hunting pressure and you start seeing great bucks happen for a reason. Deer know when they are or are not being hunted. Just because you don't see better bucks or even get pictures, sure DOES NOT mean they are not there. People that hunt strictly by cameras have no clue what they are missing out on.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Statewide, it's made a HUGE difference
I think 99.9% of inferior 2.5 yos will never become superior 4.5yo.

Sorry, but I believe the TWRA has no clue as to age structure of deer killed. There is basically no data collection on that aspect deer killing in Tennessee. Never has been.

Really, 99.9 percent of 2.5 years olds will never become better bucks. That is wrong also. Way to many areas that "never had any decent bucks, no good genetics, bad soil, etc." and the hunting is restricted, or access is lost completely for whatever reason, and in a few years there are all kinds of bucks, nice ones, trophy bucks, and the occasional giant. True, not every deer will grow into a good deer and most likely many will never be much over the average, but to say 99.9 percent will not be better deer??? That goes against anything I have ever personally seen. Also those areas that suddenly have little or zero hunting pressure and you start seeing great bucks happen for a reason. Deer know when they are or are not being hunted. Just because you don't see better bucks or even get pictures, sure DOES NOT mean they are not there. People that hunt strictly by cameras have no clue what they are missing out on.

I believe mega is referring to the majority (in red above), not ALL 2.5's. I completely agree with him....and I have seen several superior old bucks that were very inferior as a 2.5 and grew into giants

 

[DRSJ35]

Another thing if it has worked or hasn't worked. My enjoyment of hunting is still just as good. I still hunt the same way. I take what I can eat. Or what a friend or family can eat on. Let the young ones go. I might see him Or her again when next season. And just remember I LIKE BIG BUCKS AND I CANNOT LIE. Lol

 

[catman529]

I haven't seen a difference in my personal observations of public land deer. But instead of shooting 2 good 2 year old bucks, I only shoot 1 and sit on my last tag in case I get a chance at an older buck. So I am more picky because of it. A lot of the gun hunters around here on public aren't picky and shoot to fill the freezer or whatever. So every year there's a good crop of yearlings and really nice 2 year olds and a handful of mature bucks that I can see in soybean fields every summer. But the older age class bucks are hard to come by during season. I think a lot of those upper end 2 year olds get shot regardless of the bag limits. I know I take at least one a year if I get the chance, more than 1 if a bonus buck hunt is involved


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[bowhunterfanatic]

Hard to say for me. I've seen it save numerous bucks' lives, but for one reason or another either I'm not seeing those bucks the next year or they aren't growing very much year to year.

 

[megalomaniac]

JC is right. If a buck is at the bottom 10% of antler scores compared to other bucks his age at 2.5yo, he won't miraculously develop into the top 10% of all the other 4.5 yos a couple years later.

I used to think it was all about nutrition.... but its just ISNT when talking about 150in plus deer in TN. Its ALL about genetics. Some deer have it, MOST dont.

Now if you want to talk about 120 to 130 in deer in TN... ill agree that is all about age and nutrition.

So if your goal is to kill a 150 to 160in deer in TN, you MUST protect the 120in 2.5yo or the 140in 3.5 yos. And pray like heck he dodges your neighbors. And if your standards are set at killing a 150in deer in TN, (even if you are willing to pass the 140in 3.5yos), you are probably going to end up heartbroken and disappointed because you yourself are not likely to pass a 140in deer even if he is only 3.5, and your neighbors sure as heck wont.

To me its more fun just to let ALL bucks reach maturity, then be happy with whatever their genetics allow them to grow.

Oh, a previous poster asked what I define as a 'cull'... a cull is any mature buck (must be at least 4.5yo) with subpar antlers (which on my farm is less than 115 to 120in) that any experienced adult would not choose to shoot as their 1 'buck of choice'. A buck like that is not going to explode into a 150in deer at 5.5yo, so there is no need to keep feeding him, and those big fat 200 to 225lb bucks make a lot of sausage. Oh, a broken rack deer is not a 'cull' on my farms... even if he wouldn't have scored well with both sides intact. Similarly, a deer with misshapen antlers is not a 'cull' unless he's had the same rack for 2 years in a row and is at least 4.5.

The last 2 'culls' i have personally shot were a 5.5 yo 5 pt that scored 116in, and a 5.5 yo 8pt that scored 108in.

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[tnanh]

No noticeable difference. TBH East Tn needed to drop the antlerless limits to help recovery from ehd a few years ago and they did not.

Perry, Hickman, and Lewis should have done so this year. They could have done it last year because even the game wardens knew how bad it was summer
Of 2019. It was predicted 60% of herd was lost in those counties and harvest numbers reflect it yet Those
Counties remained in unit L. TWRA mismanages all aspects of our hunting and fishing resources in Tennessee. The management aspect is non existent.

 

[muddyboots]

Helped tremendously here. I have lots of pics and our lease members kill mature bucks every year. Could not say that before.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

The effects are minimial at best, and certainly not worth continuing their "experiment". Looking at TWRA's own data before the change, we were already improving the age class before and there isn't a marked trajectory difference with their changes. I talked to TWRA biologists and they even admitted the data ad age structure doesn't appear to have been changed outside of what we were already doing. That being said, the Commission should do what it said it would and change it back if the data after five years supports it.....the data supports it and confirms what the majority were saying before the change!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Perry, Hickman, and Lewis should have done so this year. They could have done it last year because even the game wardens knew how bad it was summer
Of 2019. It was predicted 60% of herd was lost in those counties and harvest numbers reflect it yet Those
Counties remained in unit L. TWRA mismanages all aspects of our hunting and fishing resources in Tennessee. The management aspect is non existent.

I completely agree that hot spot areas need to be managed differently rather than under an umbrella, just because those areas fall into a region. That goes for deer AND turkeys. We are in the heart of the area you mentioned above and as far as deer goes, the 60% herd loss last year to EHD seems about right. Unfortunately from what I've seen in regards to bucks, we had close to an 80% loss. Absolute devastation. I have found 2 scrapes on 672 acres, no rubs. Riddle me that one

 

[slabhead]

Perry, Hickman, and Lewis should have done so this year. They could have done it last year because even the game wardens knew how bad it was summer
Of 2019. It was predicted 60% of herd was lost in those counties and harvest numbers reflect it yet Those
Counties remained in unit L. TWRA mismanages all aspects of our hunting and fishing resources in Tennessee. The management aspect is non existent.

Agree! Sighting in our areas of Lewis/Hickman have been the lowest in sometime. Normally our sightings and cameras have tons of deer including a healthy supply of bucks in all age groups. Last year and so far this year, reminds me of the 80's and 90's!

 

[tnanh]

I completely agree that hot spot areas need to be managed differently rather than under an umbrella, just because those areas fall into a region. That goes for deer AND turkeys. We are in the heart of the area you mentioned above and as far as deer goes, the 60% herd loss last year to EHD seems about right. Unfortunately from what I've seen in regards to bucks, we had close to an 80% loss. Absolute devastation. I have found 2 scrapes on 672 acres, no rubs. Riddle me that one

They should move counties in and out of unit L. 3 does a day is too many anywhere. If they allowed 3 a year it would be more than enough but after an event such as the last EHD one is more than enough. Four of us occasionally hunt my 100 acres and we killed one doe and no bucks last year. Doesn't seem to be a lot better this year but I know with some trigger control it will come back. 3 does a day does not encourage trigger control on neighboring land though.

 

[Deer Assassin]

it has made no difference ..... sugar pill

 

[Southern Sportsman]

JC is right. If a buck is at the bottom 10% of antler scores compared to other bucks his age at 2.5yo, he won't miraculously develop into the top 10% of all the other 4.5 yos a couple years later.

I used to think it was all about nutrition.... but its just ISNT when talking about 150in plus deer in TN. Its ALL about genetics. Some deer have it, MOST dont.

Now if you want to talk about 120 to 130 in deer in TN... ill agree that is all about age and nutrition.

So if your goal is to kill a 150 to 160in deer in TN, you MUST protect the 120in 2.5yo or the 140in 3.5 yos. And pray like heck he dodges your neighbors. And if your standards are set at killing a 150in deer in TN, (even if you are willing to pass the 140in 3.5yos), you are probably going to end up heartbroken and disappointed because you yourself are not likely to pass a 140in deer even if he is only 3.5, and your neighbors sure as heck wont.

To me its more fun just to let ALL bucks reach maturity, then be happy with whatever their genetics allow them to grow.

Oh, a previous poster asked what I define as a 'cull'... a cull is any mature buck (must be at least 4.5yo) with subpar antlers (which on my farm is less than 115 to 120in) that any experienced adult would not choose to shoot as their 1 'buck of choice'. A buck like that is not going to explode into a 150in deer at 5.5yo, so there is no need to keep feeding him, and those big fat 200 to 225lb bucks make a lot of sausage. Oh, a broken rack deer is not a 'cull' on my farms... even if he wouldn't have scored well with both sides intact. Similarly, a deer with misshapen antlers is not a 'cull' unless he's had the same rack for 2 years in a row and is at least 4.5.

The last 2 'culls' i have personally shot were a 5.5 yo 5 pt that scored 116in, and a 5.5 yo 8pt that scored 108in.

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Having read Mega's thoughts on this before, I think it's worth pointing out that he is not using the term "cull" as it is often thrown around. That is, he isn't killing below average deer with a goal of "improving genetics." Just as an exception to their self-imposed 1 buck limit since there is no point protecting the future potential of a buck that is already mature but has subpar antlers.

 

[Winchester]

IMO opinion hunter mindset changed close to 10 yrs ago and hunting has been getting better here in TN for older age bucks ever since. I dont think changing from 3 to 2 did much of anything, as if hunters are allowed more than 1 total, results are mostly the same. That said im not lobbying for a 1 buck limit in TN, matter of fact I liked the 3 buck limit.

 

[jejeffrries71]

No difference in South West Tennessee. There are too many hunters that pay no attention to the game laws anyway. People look at me like I'm either lying or stupid when I tell them I don't lay out corn. WalMart doesn't have those pallets of shelled corn in the aisles this time of year for no reason. So, after trespassing, poaching, baiting, shooting out of season, shooting from the road and after hours, I don't think taking another buck is going to bother them much.