These last 2yrs have been hard where I hunt in middle tn, it's ashamed how twra has not seen or addressed the situation before now. The population is spotty now, good numbers in these few counties almost nothing in these counties. The majority of what's being harvested is on private farms and leases that are in a good county where there is still good population. It will soon trickle down to them places I predict.
Turkey season
- Thread starter THE DUKE
- Start date
I've heard a lot of gobbling the first several weeks of the season.... it's tapering off to roost gobbling... I saw approximately 20 hens last weekend on public lands.
Carlos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2014
- Messages
- 5,238
I have to agree. At first the agency explained that the high numbers we saw were results of the population being at near carrying capacity, and that the numbers had gone down, it was just nature, a cycle of ups and downs.
(Well now anybody who's got any sense can tell that's wrong.)
Still, what are the results of the study that's supposed to be going on?
(Well now anybody who's got any sense can tell that's wrong.)
Still, what are the results of the study that's supposed to be going on?
bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
They are doing a never ending research on the turkey population to conclude everything is fine.
Fine as in roughly 25 out of 95 counties.
It certainly is a matter of which county you hunt in. It seems, you either have birds or do not these days. That being said, last season started slow, but the birds were there, just not as vocal. this year has been one of the best for me as far as numbers and gobbling go. I think we have had good hatches in our area the last two years. I hope that happens again, for everyone. I have seen quite a few Jakes this year.
As an FYI, I hunt a mix of public and private, and a lot of the private abuts to public, so the birds can be on both on any given day. I wish I had some of these big farms around here, but they won't allow hunting, not even a lease.
W
We have already killed over 30,000 birds again this year just like we have every year since 2000. ( Exception 2018) TWRA cut the limit to 3 this season and took away bonus birds. If they are doing such a bad job how have we had a steady harvest for 21 years? They also opened certain counties later and are doing a turkey study that is not yet complete in those areas to determine in which direction to move. Some of those counties are tops in harvest in the state right now. What you have to understand for every guy like you there is one like me who stood in a spot yesterday before work and heard 5 birds gobble in a place that 10 years ago I would not even went and listened at. I hunt public land and can't see any difference with the exception of bird expansion. So my point is they can't win no matter what they do. I would say just be patient let them finish the study and then base decisions on the evidence of what they find. The alternative is base decisions off what? I think there are several factors at play and it takes time to determine the best direction to go that is best for all of us. By the way I hunt counties that are nowhere near tops in harvest at all. I feel like the worst turkey hunter east of the Mississippi to only have two but I have been blessed to call in several that stay just out of gun range and hear birds gobble. I do realize that some counties have fallen off but please understand some have actually gotten better. Hopefully they can figure it out and do what is best for all of us! I do hope things get better in the county you are in.
AT Hiker
Well-Known Member
deerfever,
TWRA has reported we have been in a rather steady decline of Wild Turkey reproduction. Steady harvest stats but declining reproduction, is that not odd to you?
TWRA has reported we have been in a rather steady decline of Wild Turkey reproduction. Steady harvest stats but declining reproduction, is that not odd to you?
Again I don't doubt declines in some areas. How extensive are the Twra studies of reproduction? What areas of the state are they in? I I am not doubting that some areas of the state are having issues. Why is it so hard to believe other areas are thriving? I am not the enemy and promise I am dedicated to what is best for turkeys but I refuse to bash the Twra at every turn and talk about how bad it is when I have been in my area and up to 3 hours away from my house and heard as many gobblers if not more than ever . All I am getting at is TN is one of the few states to remain steady this long not even Missouri can say that . I will absolutely go along with whatever needs to be done once Twra completes it's study and has information to move forward.
bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
You want data but question data on reproduction when provided. You may be in an area with no issues. That is not representative of the state or the southeast. The problem with the TWRA is a failure to be cautious and act fast. Turkeys cannot rebound like deer.
Harvest data is a poor indicator of population especially when they have been increasing limits.
Increasing limits? What state are you talking about? TN decreased the limit for the entire state and shortened the season in certain counties and reduced their limit even further than the rest of the state? I am not questioning data, I don't see any data to question. I simply ask how extensive the survey was and where did it take place? Harvest data never seems to mean anything unless it is down and then some of the same people will point to it as an indicator that turkey hunting in TN is at its low point as they did in 2018 when harvest fell below 30,000. Again I am not the enemy just refuse to bash the Twra that is all. Been doing it 38 years and I am not here to argue with anyone but I don't have to go along with everyone that wants a 1 bird limit and a two week season.
bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
Deerfever
The data on brood surveys is in this report.
You referenced steady harvest but over the historical data they increased limits.
The data on brood surveys is in this report.
You referenced steady harvest but over the historical data they increased limits.
bvoss
Well-Known Member
I hunt Maury and Williamson mainly. It goes back and forth from year to year. But I've noticed in both areas where I hunt that there are far less birds than what there used to be 10 or so years ago.
I have seen the brood surveys, again where are they taking place and how thoroughly? Not arguing at all as they show a drop in reproduction in places. It even say there were 72 observers! 72 for the whole state and that observation numbers were down due to the Covid pandemic. Again I was not part of the hunter survey it speaks of either. I don't know that it says how many people were a part of it. Again it's funny how harvest numbers don't mean a thing but already there is a 20 versus 21 thread with some of the same people pointing out " we are 10,000 birds down". How can anyone not realize that people all over where sent home from work( myself included) and in the woods more days so that led to more turkeys being killed plus the fact that we had a good number of Jakes in 2019 which led to lots of 2 year olds in 20. I believe a biologist on this site confirmed that fact. Non residents came in by the bundles and hunted longer than the normal 3 or 4 days they normally do. I guess if anything Twra might could have limited Non resident license sales as some other states did but lots of states didn't do anything as no one seen the pandemic or the effects it would bring with it. Some states that stopped non resident hunters had stopped non residents from coming period. I am not suggesting Twra Does not need to do anything what I am suggesting is letting them gather information and data so they can move forward with what is best for all of us, not just what is best for someone on their farm. I know harvest data is not the only factor , my point is we are fortunate to have a steady harvest rate unlike some others. Missouri dropped 25,000 birds since I believe the 04 harvest. I have been out the last two mornings in the same spot that I heard 5 Wednesday morning. Not a single gobble! For some if they go to that same spot this morning" There ain't no Turkeys" I know better because I am obsessed and out before work or whenever I get a chance. Again I believe the guys that say there area is down, why is it so hard to believe guys that say their area is doing good if not better than ever? It does not mean that myself or others are anti turkey or kill at all cost. I have had at least 4 Gobblers at 45 to 50 yards and have not fired a shot nor will I untill they get 35 40. If I don't kill another bird , I have thoroughly enjoyed this season and appreciate the Lord allowing me to do it one more year. Again please realize that Twra did make changes to limits and even opening dates for some areas this season. They will never satisfy everyone!
Last edited:
I haven't read anyone post that they don't think some areas are doing fine or better than the past. I have read lots of posts saying it's worse where they hunt and it's widespread...not universal. I can only speak of my own area. I have heard a roost gobble once this spring. I am not a one time in the woods hunter plus I live where I hunt. All I have to do is walk outside to be able to listen to them. I drive to other properties I have permission to hunt and I drive past pastures and fields that used to have birds in them "all the time". Universally there are practically no birds anywhere on any of these farms. Just a few short years ago I had hundreds of turkeys I would see all spring. I have laid eyes on two toms and four hens since the season opened. Most guys were not able to see the reality of the decline...they still went out and killed their birds. What they were doing was killing the same number of birds from a smaller and smaller pool of available toms till now "there ain't no birds anymore, what happened?". Why aren't the turkeys able to produce as many poults is the question.
I don't have the answer, that is why you let TWRA finish the study and then give us the results with what they think is the solution. What I can't understand is why are some areas different than others? Obviously I have not seen what you have but I believe every word you are saying. I do believe TWRA is trying to figure it out and I will go along with whatever they decide or recommend to do once they have a conclusion. Again I hunt counties that most wouldn't dream of and travel to different areas across the state. I have seen no difference in any place I have been. With that being said I have not been to LBL lately and most say it has slipped big time. They have always had a two bird limit and opened later than the rest of the State. I just don't understand it. Again I am just saying let them finish the study and that I will not complain or bash until they have a conclusion.
Sure, I will be very interested in their conclusions too. Meanwhile some areas of the state have seen a dramatic decline and TWRA hasn't really done anything and most hunters say "well, TWRA says there's not a problem so I'll bang away! After all there's a FOUR bird limit and a forever long season." Individual hunters take more responsibility for their own places but TWRA (In spite of what poult surveys show) is pretty much status quo.
How'd they handle quail?
We have a 3 bird limit and parts have a two bird limit and a shorter season? That's my point ! Twra did do something. If I lived in an area that was as bad as you say I would self impose a limit and be done with it . So what you are saying since your area is doing bad I should have a 1 bird limit and a two week season presented to me ? You see that is what TWRA hears and there are two sides to every story. I wasn't talking about quail nor do I know what happened with them. I doubt they are exactly like turkey biologically speaking. Again I knew better than just to point out that we have had one of the most steady harvest rates in the union for the last 21 years. . To sit and say they have done nothing is not accurate at all. They have an ongoing study and the new turkey director even explained they can't make further decisions until they have more information to base decisions off of. If they shorten the season and further reduce the limit , I will go by every rule they impose and not complain one bit. There are actually some people mad and can't understand why they reduced the limit from 4 in the first place, I am not that guy! Geeze, I am just going to enjoy the rest of the season and not comment on anymore of this . I absolutely hope that they do get it fixed in all the areas that have went down but I thought that was the point of the 2 bird limit and later opening dates that the Twra imposed in those areas. But they didn't do anything?
Huntaholic
Well-Known Member
Guys, Ive been hunting these things longer than some of you have been alive. Cutting the limit back was about the most "do nothing" maneuver TWRA could have done. If they really want to conserve birds, change the opening day! Make it open 2 weeks later and leave the limit alone. Something like 6% of licensed hunters actually kill the limit every year, give those mature birds a chance to get the hens all bred before opening the gate to kill them. Its just that simple.
Deerfever, I am not bashing anyone (or TWRA) or upset or complaining or any such thing. I am also not going to say TWRA has not tried their level best, but nor am I saying they've done the best job with turkeys. There has been a big decline in poult production for years that they have known about and while they did lower the limit for this year it may be too little too late for some areas. The bag limits and season length are not just rules to follow but they also say something to hunters. Liberal limits and seasons say that there is an unlimited resource, and while this was true statewide 5-10 years ago there are way too many hunters reporting otherwise, on top of the brood surveys that say something is happening and it's drastic. I agree with studies but in the meantime there should be measures put in place to protect the resource IMO.
