Strategic Harvest System.

[DoubleRidge]

I was wondering about planting rye in early spring and if it would shoot up as fast as if it were planted in the fall. I guess the only difference is the root system isn't established. We may try this.

Ya'll have mentioned ridge top plots. That's all we have. In fact, we have 9 acres of food plots and with the logging operation fixing to start, we are expanding from 9 acres to 27-29 acres! Logger will cut just low enough for easy dozer leverage to get out. He is falling trees toward the top of the ridges. We will pile up and burn until there's not much left and then spread out all those nutrients with a dozer. Disk until level, fertilize and lime after soil test.

I suggest you all to sign up and take the burn class I took. You will get SO much out of it. 80% of the class was focused on how wildlife benefits from fire and the weather conditions that favors fire. The other 20% was on strategy and planning the burn. I got so much out of the wildlife benefit portion. The course was free and was 1.5 days. Let me know if you want more info. I have a buddy that manages a WMA and he told me for years I needed to burn and like y'all, it scared the hell out of me and I kept writing it off. I started watching Dr. Grant Woods on growingdeer.tv and all the videos on prescribed fire. After weeks of watching, I felt like I was a professional LOL. But seriously, I started out small and saw how fire works and it really wasn't as bad as I thought. I'll have to admit, I was sweating bullets when lighting that first match. We have 4 areas to burn this spring. Hoping to make fire lines in next couple weeks

As mentioned in previous post we have two old cedar areas that have grown so tall that lower limbs have died so they provide no cover benefit....but yet they shade the ground out so there's little to no browse....I watched Dr Grants video and have heard others mention cutting cedars and letting them lay two years then burning.....but cedar, while hard to market, does have some value. Our Forester has given us information of who to contact...their equipment will de-limb onsite with logs being hauled out....both areas combined are 15+ acres.....and the idea of torching that FREAKS me out.....but IF we haul logs out I image it would burn well with limbs laying everywhere.....goal being to turn this area back to native grasses....or at least to thicken it up some...new growth, etc.
My understanding is for around 35 dollars per acre the forestry dept will assist with large burns, firebreaks, etc......but JC if you can share information about the training you attended or how I can attend future training I would appreciate it....thanks.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

As mentioned in previous post we have two old cedar areas that have grown so tall that lower limbs have died so they provide no cover benefit....but yet they shade the ground out so there's little to no browse....I watched Dr Grants video and have heard others mention cutting cedars and letting them lay two years then burning.....but cedar, while hard to market, does have some value. Our Forester has given us information of who to contact...their equipment will de-limb onsite with logs being hauled out....both areas combined are 15+ acres.....and the idea of torching that FREAKS me out.....but IF we haul logs out I image it would burn well with limbs laying everywhere.....goal being to turn this area back to native grasses....or at least to thicken it up some...new growth, etc.
My understanding is for around 35 dollars per acre the forestry dept will assist with large burns, firebreaks, etc......but JC if you can share information about the training you attended or how I can attend future training I would appreciate it....thanks.

Yep - 2 years on the evergreens. It will burn great - grasses burn fast and wild and that's what you'll have after cutting a bunch of evergreens.

I'll see about trying to attach PP presentations they gave us. If not, maybe I can do it through PM. Will also post some info for y'all to call for the class. I initially looked into hiring folks for that $35 per acre, but for burning 100 acres...not doing that and took the class for free and did it ourselves. Granted, there is some money dropped in drip torches, a Kestrel, diesel and gas, some sweat equity and tractor work (discing and box blade work). As long as your fire breaks are 5-8 foot wide and no snags (dead trees that could fall across your fire line and spread outside your control area)...you're good.

 

[wildlifefarmer]

We were freaked out as well to burn. The wife and I went to the fire training acad south of Murfreesboro and took the course 6 or 7 years ago to become burn bosses. The first burn we had the help of the forestry dept. The last few years we have had a little man power to help with the burns. Here are two pics of a burn. The main problem we have is getting the weather conditions right and the help lined up to burn. However we try to burn different sections of the farm every year. have had great results with the areas burned.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

We were freaked out as well to burn. The wife and I went to the fire training acad south of Murfreesboro and took the course 6 or 7 years ago to become burn bosses. The first burn we had the help of the forestry dept. The last few years we have had a little man power to help with the burns. Here are two pics of a burn. The main problem we have is getting the weather conditions right and the help lined up to burn. However we try to burn different sections of the farm every year. have had great results with the areas burned.

Little man power when the conditions are right is the biggest issue we've run into. 3-4 people should be able to manage most burns

 

[DavidW]

I was wondering about planting rye in early spring and if it would shoot up as fast as if it were planted in the fall. I guess the only difference is the root system isn't established. We may try this.

Ya'll have mentioned ridge top plots. That's all we have. In fact, we have 9 acres of food plots and with the logging operation fixing to start, we are expanding from 9 acres to 27-29 acres! Logger will cut just low enough for easy dozer leverage to get out. He is falling trees toward the top of the ridges. We will pile up and burn until there's not much left and then spread out all those nutrients with a dozer. Disk until level, fertilize and lime after soil test.

I suggest you all to sign up and take the burn class I took. You will get SO much out of it. 80% of the class was focused on how wildlife benefits from fire and the weather conditions that favors fire. The other 20% was on strategy and planning the burn. I got so much out of the wildlife benefit portion. The course was free and was 1.5 days. Let me know if you want more info. I have a buddy that manages a WMA and he told me for years I needed to burn and like y'all, it scared the hell out of me and I kept writing it off. I started watching Dr. Grant Woods on growingdeer.tv and all the videos on prescribed fire. After weeks of watching, I felt like I was a professional LOL. But seriously, I started out small and saw how fire works and it really wasn't as bad as I thought. I'll have to admit, I was sweating bullets when lighting that first match. We have 4 areas to burn this spring. Hoping to make fire lines in next couple weeks

I concur. The first step is getting over the initial fear and getting the experience of burning. If time a limiting factor, I'd rather spend the time and effort burning than working on food plots. It changed the way I mange the property and the way I hunt.

 

[BSK]

Sounds like a good plan....I've read couple of different post where Elbon Rye is mentioned as a soil builder...I need to explore this option as well.

Not only is it a good soil builder, the dead plant matter - once it's mowed or pushed over - has some natural herbicide-like properties (tends to reduce weed growth).

 

[BSK]

As mentioned in previous post we have two old cedar areas that have grown so tall that lower limbs have died so they provide no cover benefit....but yet they shade the ground out so there's little to no browse....I watched Dr Grants video and have heard others mention cutting cedars and letting them lay two years then burning.....

Oh, they will burn all right! I was there when Grant first burned his cut cedars. To say it got "a little hot" would be an understatement! People were seeing the flames and calling the fire department from 10 miles away. I would say flame height was about 50 feet.

 

[BSK]

We were freaked out as well to burn. The wife and I went to the fire training acad south of Murfreesboro and took the course 6 or 7 years ago to become burn bosses. The first burn we had the help of the forestry dept. The last few years we have had a little man power to help with the burns. Here are two pics of a burn. The main problem we have is getting the weather conditions right and the help lined up to burn. However we try to burn different sections of the farm every year. have had great results with the areas burned.

Great post, great pictures! Love your oak savannah.

 

[BSK]

I was wondering about planting rye in early spring and if it would shoot up as fast as if it were planted in the fall. I guess the only difference is the root system isn't established. We may try this.

Ya'll have mentioned ridge top plots. That's all we have. In fact, we have 9 acres of food plots and with the logging operation fixing to start, we are expanding from 9 acres to 27-29 acres! Logger will cut just low enough for easy dozer leverage to get out. He is falling trees toward the top of the ridges. We will pile up and burn until there's not much left and then spread out all those nutrients with a dozer. Disk until level, fertilize and lime after soil test.

I will let you know how the Elbon Rye does planted in winter. I have no idea how well it will germinate or grow. Just using it for erosion control and soil building for newly opened plots. A lot of bad things can happen to bare soil areas if you let them go unworked and unplanted for too long.

Almost all of my plots are ridge-top plots, and until recently, have been used more as an attractant to the property than to actually feed the deer. But with the increase in acreage we are implementing, I believe we can convert them more to plots that can actually feed the deer. We'll be doubling acreage from 5 to 10 acres, and most of the individual plots will be much larger than previous. I've come to believe that to actually grow enough plant material to feed deer, plots need to be at minimum 1/2 acre each. Most of my current plots are just little scatter 1/4-acre plots. Now they will all be 1/2 to 2 1/2 acres each.

When it comes to establishing new ridge-top plots, the very best thing you can do for them is pile the bulldozed trees in the center and burn them. The ashes produced, once spread back through the plot, are a HUGE nutrient plus. I have some 10-year-old plots that you can still see where the burn piles were located because of the better plant growth in those spots.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Oh, they will burn all right! I was there when Grant first burned his cut cedars. To say it got "a little hot" would be an understatement! People were seeing the flames and calling the fire department from 10 miles away. I would say flame height was about 50 feet.

One year on another property we cleaned out a cedar thicket and pushed them into a pile....long, tall pile of cedars mixed in with a few other trash type trees....one family member was concerned about burning it but I was convinced it wouldn't be a big deal.....I fired it up and all I can say is wow....I've burned allot of brush piles but I've never heard one roar like this one and it reached high into the sky..... thankfully it went quick and everything ended up ok...but I'll admit I was concerned for a moment.

 

[BSK]

I know exactly how you felt DoubleRidge. When a fire goes fast enough to produce that roar, I get seriously concerned!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

When it comes to establishing new ridge-top plots, the very best thing you can do for them is pile the bulldozed trees in the center and burn them. The ashes produced, once spread back through the plot, are a HUGE nutrient plus. I have some 10-year-old plots that you can still see where the burn piles were located because of the better plant growth in those spots.

That's the plan. One long line across the top and then once burned, spread it all out as evenly as possible. I've seen big fields with green circles and those happened to be where they had burn piles years ago. Our existing fields just had everything pushed off to the sides of the fields. That is not a good practice, as predators (yotes and bobcats) can den right next to where you want deer to feed. Also, you're creating dens for groundhogs and armadillos to easily access what your planting.

We plan on digging all stumps up and rolling the stumps to get as much dirt off we can, piling up and burning. A few will go off down in a hollow in a burn area (oak savanna) adjacent to the food plot.

Can't wait to update y'all on the progress. Just need the logger to get started!!!

 

[Popcorn]

I was wondering about planting rye in early spring and if it would shoot up as fast as if it were planted in the fall. I guess the only difference is the root system isn't established. We may try this.

The difference in fall planted rye, wheat versus spring planted is tillers. Tillers is a function where the cold winter causes the plant to set multiple divisions at the base, one becomes many. One seed can produce 7 or more stalks each with a seed head. Spring planted small grains will not tiller, one seed, one stalk, one seed head. Its still better than nothing, double your application rate.

 

[Popcorn]

I know exactly how you felt DoubleRidge. When a fire goes fast enough to produce that roar, I get seriously concerned!

Fire breaks! burn in sections skipping around Ideally 1/3's or 1/4's of each area because 100 acres of mature native grasses can be one heck of a blaze that will cause Volunteer FD's to dispatch for no more reason than they can see the flames from 15 miles away and the glow over 20!!!

 

[Popcorn]

I was there when Grant first burned his cut cedars.

Was this fire on Dr. Woods place in MO? I have worked with him at the KY proving ground and visited his place in MO. A very interesting and educational man. I still get to speak with him from time to time.

 

[DoubleRidge]

That's the plan. One long line across the top and then once burned, spread it all out as evenly as possible. I've seen big fields with green circles and those happened to be where they had burn piles years ago. Our existing fields just had everything pushed off to the sides of the fields. That is not a good practice, as predators (yotes and bobcats) can den right next to where you want deer to feed. Also, you're creating dens for groundhogs and armadillos to easily access what your planting.

We plan on digging all stumps up and rolling the stumps to get as much dirt off we can, piling up and burning. A few will go off down in a hollow in a burn area (oak savanna) adjacent to the food plot.

Can't wait to update y'all on the progress. Just need the logger to get started!!!

Sounds like an awesome plan...from the two new plots we developed we we're basically left with several large stumps , roots, etc....wish we could have piled and burned...no doubt the best practice.....but the equipment operator estimated it would take an extra couple of days....piling stumps on top of brush pile to burn....then restacking and continue to burn....which meant we would be paying crew to work extra days....and budget didn't support keeping his equipment and crew there so we opted to push them off ridge down in hollow out of sight.....one thing some people do with brush and stump piles is use it to direct deer traffic when entering and exiting the plot....I thought about that option but didn't want to look at the stumps.... so off in the hollow they went......good luck on your upcoming project!! Keep us posted!!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

The difference in fall planted rye, wheat versus spring planted is tillers. Tillers is a function where the cold winter causes the plant to set multiple divisions at the base, one becomes many. One seed can produce 7 or more stalks each with a seed head. Spring planted small grains will not tiller, one seed, one stalk, one seed head. Its still better than nothing, double your application rate.

That makes sense. Is there anything better to plant in early spring that will grow tremendously fast, create a lot of biomass and help with erosion control? We will be terminating May/June for summer crops.

 

[BSK]

The difference in fall planted rye, wheat versus spring planted is tillers. Tillers is a function where the cold winter causes the plant to set multiple divisions at the base, one becomes many. One seed can produce 7 or more stalks each with a seed head. Spring planted small grains will not tiller, one seed, one stalk, one seed head. Its still better than nothing, double your application rate.

Awesome info. Thanks!

 

[BSK]

Was this fire on Dr. Woods place in MO? I have worked with him at the KY proving ground and visited his place in MO. A very interesting and educational man. I still get to speak with him from time to time.

Yes. I was Grant's research assistant for 10 years.

I was there when he bought his place near Branson. Piece of crap property at the time. Wow, what he's done with it!

 

[BSK]

That makes sense. Is there anything better to plant in early spring that will grow tremendously fast, create a lot of biomass and help with erosion control? We will be terminating May/June for summer crops.

Buckwheat is a 10-week plant, germination to blooming out. But you wouldn't be able to plant too early as it would be killed by freezing temps.