Poured some bullets

BSK

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I used to pour my 58 cal Minnie balls with plumber's lead. Man, those bullets were HARD! What's in plumber's lead to make it so hard?
 

BSK

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I always thought plumbers lead was about as soft as you could get. Years ago I used a bunch of it with good results.
On the rare occasion I recovered one of my bullets, there wouldn't be a mark on it. No, expansion, no deformation. Could load it right back in the gun, even when the bullets had penetrated considerable bone.
 

Wobblyshot1

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On the rare occasion I recovered one of my bullets, there wouldn't be a mark on it. No, expansion, no deformation. Could load it right back in the gun, even when the bullets had penetrated considerable bone.
You've got me on this. I've cast and shot thousands of minie balls and those recovered were deformed beyond any hope of reuse except by re-melting and casting a new one. I would think the accuracy of your minie would have been terrible because that much hardness would have prevented the ability for it to upset into the rifling.
 

Hunter 257W

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You've got me on this. I've cast and shot thousands of minie balls and those recovered were deformed beyond any hope of reuse except by re-melting and casting a new one. I would think the accuracy of your minie would have been terrible because that much hardness would have prevented the ability for it to upset into the rifling.
Agree, a minie bullet should be soft to get bumped up on firing to fit the bore is the typical thinking. I'm wondering if when shooters talk about "Plumbers Lead" we may not be talking about the same thing. Has to be the case. I have some old lead water pipes that is what I'd call "Plumber's Lead". They are pretty soft but haven't melted any of them to cast with yet so would have to go look at them again and do a scratch test to see how they compare to the dead soft sheets of roofing lead I have on hand. I wonder BSK, if the lead you were using might have been some kind of solder. Was it already in ingot form when you got it such that it might have been mislabeled? I'm looking at the Excel spreadsheet somebody on castboolits.com put to together to estimate lead alloy hardness and solder can be as high as 17 Brinell compared to about 12 for clip on wheel weights or 5 for pure lead.
 

BSK

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Wish I knew the answer. I didn't buy the lead, my brother-in-law did. But I remember it being in big chunks that he put in the melting pot.

I was shooting the Minnie balls out of a side-by-side double-barreled 58 Grizzly Kodiak. 620 grn Minnie balls in front of 120 grns FFFg black powder. Accuracy was amazing considering the gun only had (dual) open sights. But talk about recoil... Wow. Like putting a cannon to your shoulder.
 

Omega

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Agree, a minie bullet should be soft to get bumped up on firing to fit the bore is the typical thinking. I'm wondering if when shooters talk about "Plumbers Lead" we may not be talking about the same thing. Has to be the case. I have some old lead water pipes that is what I'd call "Plumber's Lead". They are pretty soft but haven't melted any of them to cast with yet so would have to go look at them again and do a scratch test to see how they compare to the dead soft sheets of roofing lead I have on hand. I wonder BSK, if the lead you were using might have been some kind of solder. Was it already in ingot form when you got it such that it might have been mislabeled? I'm looking at the Excel spreadsheet somebody on castboolits.com put to together to estimate lead alloy hardness and solder can be as high as 17 Brinell compared to about 12 for clip on wheel weights or 5 for pure lead.
Plumbers lead is soft lead plumbers used to seal pipes with (now it's mostly PVC/CPVC), the old lead water lines are different. Water lines, x-ray room walls, and roofing vent boots are good sources of soft lead, as are stick on wheel weights, though may not be as soft as the rest.
 

Hunter 257W

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When you say "used to seal pipes with" do you mean it was in a wire form that was wrapped around the end of a pipe before fastening two pipes together? Sort of like teflon tape, and that the soft lead would deform enough to be the actual seal? And this was in a form that was put on cold rather than being melted like solder?
 

Hunter 257W

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Yeah, I got a huge pile of lead sheet that was either from an X-ray room or sealing around a chimney or something else that I'm not aware of. It was at least a couple hundred lbs and the stuff is perfect to mix with clip on wheel weights for hunting bullets that expand perfectly from cartridges such as the 35 Remington or 30-30.
 

Omega

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When you say "used to seal pipes with" do you mean it was in a wire form that was wrapped around the end of a pipe before fastening two pipes together? Sort of like teflon tape, and that the soft lead would deform enough to be the actual seal? And this was in a form that was put on cold rather than being melted like solder?
Sometimes, but most times they would melt it and use it to coat the threads and other uses. There were, are, furnaces that are still called plumbers furnaces. Not a plumber so don't know each use, but have read how these were used. I have seen some for sale, but with the modern ones you can control the temp much better so have not gone that route. I have used a cast iron pan to melt lead and ladle poured some .50 cal RB and Lee REALs a long time ago, worked pretty good then, though I now prefer my bottom pour, I do have a smaller Lee ladle pot for doing small runs and fishing sinkers.
 

Hunter 257W

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Seems unlikely to ever run into enough of that sort of lead alloy to make any significant number of bullets if all it was ever used for was plumbing joints. That was the beauty of wheel weights when they were lead, they were so plentiful.

I never cast with a ladle until recently believe it or not. (Well, except for the 1 time in High School at my friend's house using his Mothers sauce pan to cast 44 cal round balls while his Mother was gone. :) ) Beyond that one experience, I started with a Lee 10 lb bottom pour pot in college and later bought a 20 lb, still use both. Added a PID temperature controller a few years ago that seems to help stabilize the Temperature as well as allowing me to know what the Temp is more accurately. Yeah, a bottom pour is the way to go for any kind of volume production. I mainly got the ladle to help with getting better fillout with tiny 22 caliber bullets. You can cast all day with one pot full of lead too with those! :)
 

Omega

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Seems unlikely to ever run into enough of that sort of lead alloy to make any significant number of bullets if all it was ever used for was plumbing joints. That was the beauty of wheel weights when they were lead, they were so plentiful.

I never cast with a ladle until recently believe it or not. (Well, except for the 1 time in High School at my friend's house using his Mothers sauce pan to cast 44 cal round balls while his Mother was gone. :) ) Beyond that one experience, I started with a Lee 10 lb bottom pour pot in college and later bought a 20 lb, still use both. Added a PID temperature controller a few years ago that seems to help stabilize the Temperature as well as allowing me to know what the Temp is more accurately. Yeah, a bottom pour is the way to go for any kind of volume production. I mainly got the ladle to help with getting better fillout with tiny 22 caliber bullets. You can cast all day with one pot full of lead too with those! :)
You would be surprised, the ingots are still around, and some would buy quite a bit because it was cheaper to buy in bulk, and it was relatively cheap then. Every now and then some retired plumber, or their family, finds it and put them up for sale, along with solder they squirreled away. I haven't tried doing any .22s, though I do have a six cavity Lee bator mold on hand, but I have always had plenty of surplus 5.56 that I never had the need to do them.
 

Hunter 257W

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You would be surprised, the ingots are still around, and some would buy quite a bit because it was cheaper to buy in bulk, and it was relatively cheap then. Every now and then some retired plumber, or their family, finds it and put them up for sale, along with solder they squirreled away. I haven't tried doing any .22s, though I do have a six cavity Lee bator mold on hand, but I have always had plenty of surplus 5.56 that I never had the need to do them.
Yep, the Lee Bator (2 cavity) is the 1st 22 mold I got and the only one I've cast with at this point. I got it for the 22 Hornet and 218 Bee. The other is a Lee 55 grain flat point. No particular purpose for buying it except to mess around with in the same two cartridges and possibly the 221 Fireball in reduced loads.

I used to turn down so much soft lead because I thought it was useless for what I wanted plus never thought wheel weights would go away. Would love to run into some more pure lead now. I have about 1,000 lbs that is what I consider "pure" lead currently. Another 2,000 of clip on wheel weights. Getting ready to gain access to a ton of scrap lumber to use building sand boxes for bullet traps so should be able to shoot without losing any lead after that. Would still welcome any chances to buy scrap lead of any sort though as would most casters.
 

Omega

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Yep, the Lee Bator (2 cavity) is the 1st 22 mold I got and the only one I've cast with at this point. I got it for the 22 Hornet and 218 Bee. The other is a Lee 55 grain flat point. No particular purpose for buying it except to mess around with in the same two cartridges and possibly the 221 Fireball in reduced loads.

I used to turn down so much soft lead because I thought it was useless for what I wanted plus never thought wheel weights would go away. Would love to run into some more pure lead now. I have about 1,000 lbs that is what I consider "pure" lead currently. Another 2,000 of clip on wheel weights. Getting ready to gain access to a ton of scrap lumber to use building sand boxes for bullet traps so should be able to shoot without losing any lead after that. Would still welcome any chances to buy scrap lead of any sort though as would most casters.
Much better shape than me, I doubt I have over 500lbs. But have farmed a few mounds and know of a few more so supply is out there. You can get some pewter, solder, and other things to melt into your pure to make it as hard as you want. There is a neat excel sheet up on cast boolits to help with what to add and how much to get the range of bhn you seek.
 

Hunter 257W

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Much better shape than me, I doubt I have over 500lbs. But have farmed a few mounds and know of a few more so supply is out there. You can get some pewter, solder, and other things to melt into your pure to make it as hard as you want. There is a neat excel sheet up on cast boolits to help with what to add and how much to get the range of bhn you seek.
Yep, I have that excel file on multiple computers. That is VERY handy info to have and I use it a lot.

I tease a shooting friend, that got into casting because of me, about severely complicating my casting process because once he started he got into using all these different alloys. Once he started talking about, I had to try them out. I kid him saying that life was so easy for me when everything I used was cast from clip on wheel weights. I didn't need to label anything. Now I have to label EVERYTHING! Even got me into buying the tin wire chunks from Rotometal. I have nearly $500 worth of Tin wire. :( I got lucky with scrap about 10 years ago and got two big rolls of solder at 30 cents/lb but I can't bring myself to melt it for bullets. Figure that was my lifetime solder supply for practically nothing. I've not put much effort into finding pewter but yes that is a great source for tin if you can find it at yard sale prices!
 
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