Pine timber management for turkeys

[megalomaniac]

I've noticed a pattern the past 5 years on my south MS lease with 2 burn cycles and turkey population fluctuations...

Spring before I joined, the twice thinned 15 to 20 yo pines were burned.

My first spring (1 year after burn), I killed the only turkey taken on the entire lease, had no pictures of any other birds, heard no other gobbles.

Second spring on the lease (2 years after burn) we had a ton of turkeys on my lease. I killed 3, son killed 1, and 1 was taken by another member. There were still 5 toms on cameras after season ended.

3rd spring on the lease (3 years after burn), we had no toms on the lease I could find. Never heard a gobble, and gave up and started hunting public. Woods were burned early April (later than normal due to weather conditions). No other members heard or killed a turkey.

Last spring (1st year after burn), we had 6 jakes and 1 tom. The tom only gobbled for me once on the season, but he was too smart for me. Another member killed him mid April coming in silent. No other birds killed on the lease, none on camera.

This spring (2nd year after burn) I have a great population of toms... at least 5 that spend the majority of time on the lease, plus another 3 that occasionally transition onto the lease. Whether we kill them or not is irrelevant, they are there.

So to me it seems on these 2 burn cycles the 2nd year after a burn is the banner year. I'm guessing due to increased poult survival the years the burn is conducted due to new tender forage late spring/ early summer attracting insects, leading to improved poult survival.

Any of you pine timber management guys seeing the same pattern?

 

[woodsman04]

Sounds good. I think it may be better to rotate everything on a three year basis if you can. But I have no idea on how much land you have or what control you have over it.
Also I think early spring burns are the most beneficial, as in burning right now.

 

[TheLBLman]

I'm not burning any pine plantations, but . . . . .

This spring (2nd year after burn) I have a great population of toms... at least 5 that spend the majority of time on the lease, plus another 3 that occasionally transition onto the lease.

Sure would like to hear how many acres on which you're considering 5 to 8 longbeards a great population

As an aside, it's been my experience that most turkey (and deer) hunters greatly over-estimate the resource, as in there's really not enough living turkeys in most areas being hunted for every hunter to kill one.

 

[MickThompson]

When are they burning? Pre nesting or up into spring?

 

[megalomaniac]

When are they burning? Pre nesting or up into spring?

5y ago.. Late Feb

2y ago mid April.

Timing of spring burn didn't seem to make a difference. You would think the 2y ago burn in mid April would have destroyed all the nests, but we had a ton of jakes last year, and a ton of toms this year.

Only 2 jakes this year that I've found

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm not burning any pine plantations, but . . . . .



Sure would like to hear how many acres on which you're considering 5 to 8 longbeards a great population

As an aside, it's been my experience that most turkey (and deer) hunters greatly over-estimate the resource, as in there's really not enough living turkeys in most areas being hunted for every hunter to kill one.

2000 acres.

That's REALLY good for down here.

Just like most places throughout the US, there are pockets with a lot of birds, then miles without any birds.

I'd like to think my aggressive trapping of coons on others deer feeders has made a difference, but we seem to still have 4 to 10 coons hitting the other members feeders during deer season which isn't a change over the years.

I would consider 2 or 3 birds annually a 'good' population on the 2000 acres. More than that keeps you from being able to sleep at night.

 

[TheLBLman]

I would consider 2 or 3 birds annually a 'good' population on the 2000 acres.

Realistically, that's likely about what is available across much of TN.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I've got a first thin on 260ac this year and burn next year to let some of the fuel break down so it won't get too hot. I have found that in areas with a healthy population and otherwise healthy habitat/carrying capacity turkeys will most certainly use pine stands especially once they get up and canopy. Seems it's a little like the boss hen or doe getting the very best nesting or fawning cover.

I have a ton of turkeys so they're shoe-horned into any and every available habitat including planted pines. I expect when we burn this next block that'll make it even more desirable but they're in it now. When you get a minute read these. They're dated but worth the read.

Tips on turkey hunting in pine plantations from Bob Walker and Larry Norton

Tips on turkey hunting in pine plantation from Bob Walker and Larry Norton

www.wildturkeyreport.com

Turkey Hunting: In the Thick of Things

As the season wears on and hens begin to nest, the gobblers could follow them into the 'thick stuff'

www.wildturkeyreport.com

 

[Boll Weevil]

Also I've killed several toms in younger pine stands that were pretty thick. They had followed a hen that was going to lay for the day back up in that mess far enough to figure out she was done with em for the day.

 

[megalomaniac]

About half the birds I've killed in MS were in some crazy thick stuff. A few times so thick, the gobbling turkey couldn't even figure out how to get through it to me and either gobbled up a real hen or I had to reposition to the side so he could work around the impenetrable blackberry briers and get to me. But the overall population seems to decline rapidly once the pines become so thick you can't even walk through them (chock full of privet, yaupon, wax myrtle, briers, etc), then the population explodes 2 years after the burn. That being said, they seem to prefer the more open hardwood drains between the pine stands. But since the woods are much more open, they often hang up at 50-75y not

This all may be coincidence or a legitimate pattern... but what I'm trying to figure out. Are the birds getting eaten by bobcats and coyotes when the pines get thick, or are they just moving off a few miles away for a year or two, then returning when habitat is better?

 

[Boll Weevil]

One more thought mega; maybe some are still there it's just harder to hear'em gobble when it's bad thick like that in between burns. Add even the slightest breeze + a little topography and you practically have to be on top of a bird to him.

I recall walking a road through some 12yr old planted pine and swore I heard one gobble what seemed like 1/4mi away. I hotfooted to where I thought he might be and he gobbled seemingly right where I had come from...I'd run waaaaaay past him A bird 80 yards away can sound super-muffled and a whole lot further than he really is.

A bird gobbling smack dab in the middle of a decent size block om pine can be harder to hear than one hollerin' through open understory hardwoods.

 

[megalomaniac]

One more thought mega; maybe some are still there it's just harder to hear'em gobble when it's bad thick like that in between burns. Add even the slightest breeze + a little topography and you practically have to be on top of a bird to him.

I recall walking a road through some 12yr old planted pine and swore I heard one gobble what seemed like 1/4mi away. I hotfooted to where I thought he might be and he gobbled seemingly right where I had come from...I'd run waaaaaay past him A bird 80 yards away can sound super-muffled and a whole lot further than he really is.

A bird gobbling smack dab in the middle of a decent size block om pine can be harder to hear than one hollerin' through open understory hardwoods.

No doubt it's hard to hear them in that stuff. We could just barely hear the bird Sophia killed when he was gobbling 125y away... but they cant evade the 12 plus cameras I run plus the countless hours in the field. They just weren't there the 3rd year after a burn and the spring of the burn the last 2 burn cycles.

 

[muddyboots]

2000 acres.

That's REALLY good for down here.

Just like most places throughout the US, there are pockets with a lot of birds, then miles without any birds.

I'd like to think my aggressive trapping of coons on others deer feeders has made a difference, but we seem to still have 4 to 10 coons hitting the other members feeders during deer season which isn't a change over the years.

I would consider 2 or 3 birds annually a 'good' population on the 2000 acres. More than that keeps you from being able to sleep at night.

Wow I used have lots more than that on camera. Our lease. It is 900 acres and I would have pics of 15 to 20 longbeards every year. Impossible to
Tell if any repeat pics. This year I have 2 so far.