Over an Under Shotgun Question

CBU93

CBU93

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Any reason why it would fire 2.75 light dove loads but not 3" duck loads when it has in the past?

Slight dimple on the primer...
 
RUGER

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My first thought would be dirt / buffering / oil buildup on the firing pin spring. Or the extreme cold might have some water / ice freezing issue?
That wouldn't explain why it would shoot one and not the other though???

I can't think of anything that would explain that, unless, perhaps, the 3" shells have a different primer that is made from a harder material maybe?
 
DaveB

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No clue but very interested in the solution.

I don't see how the difference in the primer thickness could be enough to stop the firing pin but that is exactly what the evidence points too.

What brand shell works, what brand fails?
 
RUGER

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DaveB":2c81qzve said:
I don't see how the difference in the primer thickness could be enough to stop the firing pin but that is exactly what the evidence points too.

I figure it normally wouldn't unless coupled with a dirt / grime issue which is not letting the spring fully compress, or holding it back from fully engaging maybe?
 
CBU93

CBU93

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Ruger,
As you are aware this happened once before in your presence. After a dog cussing and cleaning, all appeared fine as the next shots were from the 2.75" dove loads...Issue occurred this past week with the 3" loads...that is what gets me. The primer was dimpled. Buddy says spring...I say bull :livid:
 
RUGER

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I had forgotten that.

I gotta go with your buddy though.
Either that spring has become weak or it's dirty.
Still don't explain it shooting light loads but not heavy.

Ain't nothing in the barrel where the rim sets is there?
Maybe giving the shell a little movement when the firing pin hits? I highly doubt that but just grasping at straws.
 
DaveB

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Can't be spring.......Has to be the 209 primer.

The 3's must be Federal. No, some offshoot stuff like hevi-x or something Black hills.

The firing pin will slam forward with the same degree of energy on the 2 3/4 as with the 3, since the pin don't know what it is hitting and the physical location of the primer is at the same exact location on both shells. You should get the same penetration of the pin. You ain't.

The only thing stopping the pin is the hardness of the primer metal. If it was soft but over-thick you would get the ridge around the pin strike, you ain't getting that.

So, the firing pin is hitting a harder metal so long as the aforementioned dimple is just that, a dimple.
 
CBU93

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Shells are 12 year old Winchester Drylok, this year's Blindside, and Heavy Steel.
 
RUGER

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DaveB":2pgv1d71 said:
Can't be spring.......Has to be the 209 primer.



The firing pin will slam forward with the same degree of energy on the 2 3/4 as with the 3,

.

Unless the spring is gummed up. :stir: :poke:
 
DaveB

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if the spring was in any way defective gummed up or just switched over to the dark side, it does not know what is in the chamber.

How do it know to slam forward with lesser force? Because if it was a 2 3/4 it would strike the primer and Houston we have ignition.

Still, clean the thing good and see what happens.

Be sure to take it outside when you pull the trigger on a 3", just in Case RUGER is right.
 
M

mike243

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Primer seated deeper on the 3" ,seems I have read this about any ammo
 
DaveB

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I went and looked at some 2 3/4 and 3" shells. I have bunches because embarrassing myself on the dove or duck fields is not something I enjoy.

I would say the difference in primer location is somewhat of a surprise.

First, the survey population. Federal, Remington, Winchester. Note the prices-I have had these longer than some of the TNDeer members have been alive.



then the evaluation participants.



I am trying to measure these...but I think the 3 is closer to level with the brass than the 2 3/4
 

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CBU93

CBU93

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For anyone watching this thread, I did reach out to CZ via email and received this response.

"If you haven’t had any issues up until this point it sounds like you may have either worn out hammer springs or possibly a burr built up on your firing pins. We normally do not have any problems with the action being clean as all the internals are located within the stock but if it got wet at some point I suppose it could be corrosion. Unfortunately your gun is no longer under warranty so if you want to send it to us it would be as a paid repair with a $120 minimum charge. It firing shorter shells but not the 3 inch is most likely just a difference in the hardness of the primers between the two shells, especially if they are different brands. It should fire both with no issues so it sounds mechanical. If you have a gunsmith in the area I can send you some new hammer springs at no charge and you can have him install them and check your firing pins as well. Let me know if you want to try that or if you would like to send it to us for a paid repair."

I opted for the new springs first...so I need a local, trustworthy smith recommendation.
 
jlanecr500

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Some primers are inherently harder. I've had a similar problem with cci small rifle primers. A replacement hammer spring cured the issue.

Seating depth can effect it but a lite strike is a lite strike any way you look at it.
 
Southern Sportsman

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Can't be spring.......Has to be the 209 primer.

The firing pin will slam forward with the same degree of energy on the 2 3/4 as with the 3, since the pin don't know what it is hitting and the physical location of the primer is at the same exact location on both shells. You should get the same penetration of the pin. You ain't.

100% agree that it has nothing to do with hull length - 2 3/4” vs 3”.

How big is your sample size on 3” shells not firing? The couple times I’ve dealt with weak hammer spring issues, it’s always a random or intermittent failure to fire. Shoot 100 rounds fine, a click or two, shoot 50 fine, click again.

If it has failed to fire with a 3” shell 3-4 times, it could just be coincidence. You just happened to have a 3” shell in the gun each time to problem presented. Doesn’t mean it’s caused by shell difference.

If it consistently fires 2 3/4” and routinely fails with 3” — there is just something squirrelly about the 3” shells you’re using. Perhaps the primer is seated deeper on the 3” shells and — for one reason or another — your firing pin isn’t reaching as far as it should.
 
Chaneylake

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on the wings of a snow white dove
Any reason why it would fire 2.75 light dove loads but not 3" duck loads when it has in the past?

Slight dimple on the primer...
I have read all comments.
I would take gun to Frank at WHM'C gun shot in Humboldt.
I promise you that if you provide the shells that fire and the ones that don't then he will fix the issue.
Best gunsmith within 300 miles.
 

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