May Fish & Wildlife Commission Meeting

[Southern Sportsman]

Just my opinion, but I want to know why something is happening before I take remedial action. Not only could taking early remedial action be detrimental, it could make figuring out what is going on far more difficult.

I suspect that is the scientist in you. I respect you and your opinions a great deal, and waiting until you can positively identify a problem before taking action is certainly a valid approach in many, many circumstances. But there have already been years of research and billions of dollars spent by states across the southeast trying to pin this one down. I'm not optimistic that a sudden epiphany will occur in the next two years to positively identify the problem. I'm also not optimistic that turkey populations in much of West TN will survive a few more years at the current rate.

To be clear, I'm not asking for some extreme, knee-jerk reaction to the problem. I just want Tennessee to take some steps, consistent with explicit recommendations from the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, the NWTF, and other leading wild turkey biologists. I cant think of even one scenario in which delaying start dates until close to peek breeding/nest initiation or reducing the bag limit could be detrimental to turkeys.

 

[BSK]

I suspect that is the scientist in you. I respect you and your opinions a great deal, and waiting until you can positively identify a problem before taking action is certainly a valid approach in many, many circumstances. But there have already been years of research and billions of dollars spent by states across the southeast trying to pin this one down. I'm not optimistic that a sudden epiphany will occur in the next two years to positively identify the problem. I'm also not optimistic that turkey populations in much of West TN will survive a few more years at the current rate.

To be clear, I'm not asking for some extreme, knee-jerk reaction to the problem. I just want Tennessee to take some steps, consistent with explicit recommendations from the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, the NWTF, and other leading wild turkey biologists. I cant think of even one scenario in which delaying start dates until close to peek breeding/nest initiation or reducing the bag limit could be detrimental to turkeys.

Wildlife Biology is a SCIENCE. Not to say there isn't also some "art" involved. There certainly is. But "changing the rules" while you're in the midst of trying to understand the problem is truly BAD science.

Can you point me in the direction of peer reviewed research from SAFSA or NWTF that pinpoints the causes of Southeastern turkey declines? I'm seriously asking.

 

[TheLBLman]

I think the same people are still trying to figure out what happened to the Bobwhite quail populations that once thrived all across Tennessee. Wish they would complete that study so we can make some changes to bring back the quail.

In all seriousness, I believe we will find much correlation between declining turkey populations and the near extinction of Tennessee's quail. Hunting had very little to do with quail declining, but then, we never did hunt quail in the Spring while they were nesting either.

 

[TheLBLman]

Just my opinion, but I want to know why something is happening before I take remedial action. Not only could taking early remedial action be detrimental, it could make figuring out what is going on far more difficult.

I cannot disagree with that position, but,
it can sometimes be akin to waiting until you find out what caused a person's house to catch fire, BEFORE you attempt to put out the fire.

To some point, what difference does it make?
Sometimes we need to do something before we lose the opportunity.

Like Southern Sportsman's reply to BSK's thoughts . . . . .

I suspect that is the scientist in you. I respect you and your opinions a great deal . . .

But there have already been years of research . . . . .
I just want Tennessee to take some steps, consistent with explicit recommendations from the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, the NWTF, and other leading wild turkey biologists. I cant think of even one scenario in which delaying start dates until close to peek breeding/nest initiation or reducing the bag limit could be detrimental to turkeys.

x 2

 

[Andy S.]

But "changing the rules" while you're in the midst of trying to understand the problem is truly BAD science.

To my knowledge, the southern middle TN counties where the 6 year study is ongoing, have not changed, or changed enough to affect the outcome of the study. I believe TFWC granted that consideration to TWRA and UTK.

This is taken from page 2 of this document, referencing the 6 year study (2016-2022) in southern middle TN counties.

"More severe population declines have been observed in other areas of the state, particularly in south-central Tennessee, causing local residents, hunters and managers concern that additional population-level factors are impacting these populations (Buehler et al. 2016). In response, TWRA, the University of Tennessee and the National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) partnered on a six-year research project to determine what factors are driving turkey population fluc-tuation in southern middle Tennessee and develop strategies to address issues that are identified. The study, which began in 2016, involves radio-marking and monitoring wild turkeys in five counties, as well as collecting information regarding hunting pressure, disease prevalence and hunter attitudes and opinions (Buehler et al. 2016). The design and scope of this project should allow inference of study results and strategies to a much broader scale."

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/twra/documents/birds/turkey_management_plan.pdf

 

[TheLBLman]

By the way, it's questionable whether we should trust BSK's thoughts on turkey management, as to him, they are just big feathered rats that eat up his food plots planted for deer

 

[Andy S.]

By the way, it's questionable whether we should trust BSK's thoughts on turkey management, as to him, they are just big feathered rats that eat up his food plots planted for deer

Yes indeed, I remember his comments about them "seed eating feathered rats" back in the day.

 

[Stlbaseball1]

The meeting was live on YouTube today. If you care about turkeys it's worth a watch. Thanks to the guys who took their time to provide quality public comment.

 

[Stlbaseball1]

Also, I would add that it "appears" based on commissioner comments that several of the commissioners believe there is a need for some type of change, but they are unsure of what those changes should be.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Can you point me in the direction of peer reviewed research from SAFSA or NWTF that pinpoints the causes of Southeastern turkey declines? I'm seriously asking.

To my knowledge, nothing has pinpointed the problem definitively. But both SEAFWA and the NWTF have recommended that season dates be structured to open coinciding with or after peak nesting. A very good article in the Journal of the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies was published in 2018 ("Considerations for Timing of Spring Wild Turkey Hunting Seasons in the Southeastern United States") explaining it. It acknowledges a knowledge gap, but also points out that it is imprudent to ignore the potential impacts of high early male harvest on reproduction.

"Effect of male harvest on turkey production remains a considerable knowledge gap. Yet, it is imprudent to ignore evidence which suggests high, early spring harvest (Exum et al. 1987) or insufficient adult male abundance (Isabelle et al. 2016) may locally suppress turkey productivity. In fact, many authors (Vangilder 1992, Kurzejeski and Vangilder 1992, Healy and Powell 2000) have warned about potential implications of high male turkey mortality on population productivity when it occurs early in the breeding season."

I just feel like Tennessee has ignored common sense for a while now. We know that peak breeding/nesting in TN happens between April 14 and May 1. We currently start hunting around April 1st. About 60% of the annual harvest takes place in the first 2 weeks of the season. So in a declining population, we kill 20,000 males before the hens have bred. That certainly isn't helping hens breed or nest more timely or produce more poults.

 

[BSK]

By the way, it's questionable whether we should trust BSK's thoughts on turkey management, as to him, they are just big feathered rats that eat up his food plots planted for deer

Darn straight!

 

[BSK]

To my knowledge, nothing has pinpointed the problem definitively. But both SEAFWA and the NWTF have recommended that season dates be structured to open coinciding with or after peak nesting. A very good article in the Journal of the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies was published in 2018 ("Considerations for Timing of Spring Wild Turkey Hunting Seasons in the Southeastern United States") explaining it. It acknowledges a knowledge gap, but also points out that it is imprudent to ignore the potential impacts of high early male harvest on reproduction.

"Effect of male harvest on turkey production remains a considerable knowledge gap. Yet, it is imprudent to ignore evidence which suggests high, early spring harvest (Exum et al. 1987) or insufficient adult male abundance (Isabelle et al. 2016) may locally suppress turkey productivity. In fact, many authors (Vangilder 1992, Kurzejeski and Vangilder 1992, Healy and Powell 2000) have warned about potential implications of high male turkey mortality on population productivity when it occurs early in the breeding season."

I just feel like Tennessee has ignored common sense for a while now. We know that peak breeding/nesting in TN happens between April 14 and May 1. We currently start hunting around April 1st. About 60% of the annual harvest takes place in the first 2 weeks of the season. So in a declining population, we kill 20,000 males before the hens have bred. That certainly isn't helping hens bred or nest more timely or produce more poults.

Thank you Southern Sportsman.

 

[BSK]

I think the same people are still trying to figure out what happened to the Bobwhite quail populations that once thrived all across Tennessee.

What happened to quail is pretty well known. The end of predator control/trapping. Habitat loss is also high on the list, but predation is #1.

 

[TheLBLman]

What happened to quail is pretty well known. The end of predator control/trapping. Habitat loss is also high on the list, but predation is #1.

I somewhat disagree, as do not believe we've figured it all out yet.
Both changes & losses in habitat have been direct drivers of increased predation.

In fact, it may be that starvation (of young quail chicks) is a bigger factor than predation.

Regarding a predation, yes, progressively less trapping has been a driver of increased predation. But a larger predation issue may be the increased number and adaptations of raptor predators, particularly the Cooper's hawk.

At any rate, large acreage areas with better quail habitat now than these these same areas had in the 1950's still have problems enabling quail to flourish.

IMO, it's not a single one thing so much as it's everything that has gone against quail, and many of these factors also go against wild turkey.

As to the declination of quail, imo, the single #1 factor was the introduction of fescue which quickly replaced our native grasses. Fescue is bad for all wildlife, and in the case of quail, not only did it eliminate much of their food sources, but it also made it much easier for predators to catch birds.

Quail (and other birds) were adapted to our native grasses which are not as "thick" as fescue, and the birds could more easily (quickly) run or fly thru the native grasses. They get "hung up" in fescue, and the upper hand shifted to the predators. Same can be said for johnsongrass.

Others believe a loss of insects around agricultural operations has been a bigger driver of the declinations. I think it's everything, but particularly including fescue habitat changes (not just losses), increased predation, and fewer insects in ag areas.

There are thousands of contiguous acres scattered across TN where quail once thrived, yet, even when what is believed to be better quail habitat now than then is restored, they still don't thrive any more. That statement seems to include such large areas as even the Ames Plantation where the thriving of native bobwhite quail has been a top priority.

My fear is similar is happening to our wild turkey populations, albeit the turkey is a tad more adaptive, less vulnerable to predation, and has a naturally longer lifespan than quail (i.e. something like 4 years vs. 2 yrs).

 

[Andy S.]

Playing devil's advocate here. What if there is NEVER a cause identified, as I highly suspect it is multi-factorial and likely not easy to pinpoint a single root cause. How long do you study it, to conclude little, or nothing of significance? This is happening in neighboring States as well, surely there are other ongoing studies to infer from? At what point does the Resource Agency err on the side of conservation for the sake of the species and the future of the sport (kids, grand kids, great grand kids). As many of us turkey hunters have seen firsthand over the last decade, localized turkey populations are struggling in many areas of the State, and we're anxious to get a handle on it, sooner, rather than later.

 

[knightrider]

Stop covering the whole state with one big turkey blanket! I hope they divide into units before they do knee jerk reactions and cut the season and drop bag limits because some areas are suffering while most are not! Was always told there will be no change unless there is a biological reason boy they shot that all to h$!! With deer and now will do it with turkeys

 

[Andy S.]

I hope they divide into units before they do knee jerk reactions and cut the season and drop bag limits because some areas are suffering while most are not!

I can agree with some of this, especially the "divide into units" piece, but I cannot agree that ".........while most are not".

For this past 2021 season, 46 (almost half) of the counties checked in 0-300 birds, 23 counties 300-400, 17 counties 400-600, 6 counties 600-800, and the same top 3 counties 800-1300. Since most like to look at harvest data as indicator of pre-season standing flock, and a reliable indicator for managing turkeys and setting bag limits, I think it is easy to see that 69 of the 95 counties (72%) are not setting the woods on fire. In essence, the top 34 counties (roughly 1/3) account for 50% of the season harvest. It is obvious to me that managing the State as several units with different criteria needs to be looked into more.

 

[scn]

While units are fine in theory, they suck in the real world. With the ability to check in a bird with your phone, units become impossible to enforce. And, yes, the culls will take advantage.

I care too much for the health of our flock to want to go down that road.

 

[MickThompson]

For this past 2021 season, 46 (almost half) of the counties checked in 0-300 birds, 23 counties 300-400, 17 counties 400-600, 6 counties 600-800, and the same top 3 counties 800-1300. Since most like to look at harvest data as indicator of pre-season standing flock, and a reliable indicator for managing turkeys and setting bag limits, I think it is easy to see that 69 of the 95 counties (72%) are not setting the woods on fire. In essence, the top 34 counties (roughly 1/3) account for 50% of the season harvest. It is obvious to me that managing the State as several units with different criteria needs to be looked into more.

Total harvest per county is a meaningless statistic, as counties are not remotely the same in size- we need to look at harvest per square mile and we also need some measure of hunting effort. Map those top 1/3 counties and bottom 1/3- I think you'll see that it's a mashup with few clear cut patterns. Turkey hunters being mobile in nature means that all we may do by creating different units with different bag limits is disproportionately pressure our strong flocks.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Turkey hunters being mobile in nature means that all we may do by creating different units with different bag limits is disproportionately pressure our strong flocks.

It would definitely increase pressure on the strong flocks, but would alleviate some pressure on the flocks that are struggling. I'm not suggesting that it's a perfect solution, but I think we will have units by 2023. And I think that will be some degree better than what we have now.