Is this the Down side to QDM?

[fishboy1]

I have noticed a certain theme to the usual grumbling about someone shooting a certain buck. Not just on here but out in the real world talking to other hunters.

Its hard to explain but here goes.

I have noticed that a lot of hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they passed. Not only that but hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they deem inferior or too young/small/not a trophy buck. There are a lot of posts about someone being jealous because a neighbor is hunting too close to the property line and shooting "my" deer, or one coming off "My managed property".

Could this be an unintended side effect of QDM? It seems that a lot of hunters develop feelings of ownership toward deer once they start down the QDM path.

Anyone else notice this attitude shift? THoughts?

 

[richmanbarbeque]

I think a lot of what you mentioned has been around for years. Property disputes and deer "ownership" has been around before the qdm rage. I think for the most part hunting can bring out the selfishness in all of us. I try as hard as possible to keep selfishness away from my hunting experience and so far so good.

 

[kholmes]

I agree with richmanbbq. QDM more than likely amplifies it.

 

[BSK]

In my opinion, serious QDMers eventually learn not to care about what the neighbors or others are doing, especially once they are successful with their program. It is those who don't really know what QDM is about (those who only think it is about the buck's antlers) and those who are in the begining and struggling stages of QDM that get really concerned about what others are doing.

 

[BSK]

stovepipe,

I learned long ago that those hunters that will shoot any buck end up only killing young bucks. It simply amazes me how few of the older bucks that use my property ever get shot by any of my neighbors. I've even had a neighbor tell me he's not going to hunt his own property anymore because there aren't any good bucks around. I guess I should tell that to the mature bucks I have pictures of walking back and forth between our two properties.

 

[deerchaser007]

I have noticed a certain theme to the usual grumbling about someone shooting a certain buck. Not just on here but out in the real world talking to other hunters.

Its hard to explain but here goes.

I have noticed that a lot of hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they passed. Not only that but hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they deem inferior or too young/small/not a trophy buck. There are a lot of posts about someone being jealous because a neighbor is hunting too close to the property line and shooting "my" deer, or one coming off "My managed property".

Could this be an unintended side effect of QDM? It seems that a lot of hunters develop feelings of ownership toward deer once they start down the QDM path.

Anyone else notice this attitude shift? THoughts?

Yes there are folks who run down others for shooting small deer. I can't relate to it myself ,. for i'm not gonna tell'em what to shoot. BUT,.. BUTTTT,. if they say 1 word about they ain't no big deer to shoot , or TN can't produce trophy's,.. or i didn't pass him cause someone else would shoot,.. i speak my mind like a flea on a dog. I'm gonna let someone have it. I don't care if they like it or not.
Hunting close to a property line is uncalled for. Especially if the hunter knows there are other hunters on the adjoining land. BUT,.. if it is unhunted land next door there ain't a problem. Most hunters will shoot deer across the property lines,.. and that ain't right. It should be in the hunter ethics book not to hunt within 50 yards of a property line were other hunters are present. My opinion..

I don't think hunters feel a ownership toward the deer,. i think its all jealousy. Heck,. i'll be honest. I get a litle jealous sometimes when i see BSK, wes,and all these other qdm guys post pics of these bruisers. BUT,.. at the same time it gives me hope that someday myself and my neighbors can acheive the same goal. Sometimes alittle jealousy is good for a person,.. especially if it inspires them to work harder and become smarter at what they are trying to achieve. BUT,. there are always them ones that let the jealousy take over. AND,.. they are only hurting themselves in my opinion.
Hope that answered your question. If not,... try to focus on the goods of qdm and not the bads. An apple tree is always gonna produce apples,....... some good-some bad. Just throw the bad ones to the side and focus on the good ones. I think you know what i mean...:grin:

 

[TAS]

I have noticed a certain theme to the usual grumbling about someone shooting a certain buck. Not just on here but out in the real world talking to other hunters.

Its hard to explain but here goes.

I have noticed that a lot of hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they passed. Not only that but hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they deem inferior or too young/small/not a trophy buck. There are a lot of posts about someone being jealous because a neighbor is hunting too close to the property line and shooting "my" deer, or one coming off "My managed property".

Could this be an unintended side effect of QDM? It seems that a lot of hunters develop feelings of ownership toward deer once they start down the QDM path.

Anyone else notice this attitude shift? THoughts?

Yes there are folks who run down others for shooting small deer. I can't relate to it myself ,. for i'm not gonna tell'em what to shoot. BUT,.. BUTTTT,. if they say 1 word about they ain't no big deer to shoot , or TN can't produce trophy's,.. or i didn't pass him cause someone else would shoot,.. i speak my mind like a flea on a dog. I'm gonna let someone have it. I don't care if they like it or not.
Hunting close to a property line is uncalled for. Especially if the hunter knows there are other hunters on the adjoining land. BUT,.. if it is unhunted land next door there ain't a problem. Most hunters will shoot deer across the property lines,.. and that ain't right. It should be in the hunter ethics book not to hunt within 50 yards of a property line were other hunters are present. My opinion..

I don't think hunters feel a ownership toward the deer,. i think its all jealousy. Heck,. i'll be honest. I get a litle jealous sometimes when i see BSK, wes,and all these other qdm guys post pics of these bruisers. BUT,.. at the same time it gives me hope that someday myself and my neighbors can acheive the same goal. Sometimes alittle jealousy is good for a person,.. especially if it inspires them to work harder and become smarter at what they are trying to achieve. BUT,. there are always them ones that let the jealousy take over. AND,.. they are only hurting themselves in my opinion.
Hope that answered your question. If not,... try to focus on the goods of qdm and not the bads. An apple tree is always gonna produce apples,....... some good-some bad. Just throw the bad ones to the side and focus on the good ones. I think you know what i mean...:grin:

Jeremy,

Dang, that was well said. How long you been pondering this one?
I couldn't said that better if I would have worked on it for a couple days! Agree 100%.

 

[156p&y]

BSK... I think a lot of that is a result from what qdm teaches hunters. I know in my case the best teacher I've ever had in the woods is the whitetail itself and before I became thoroughly involved in QDM I was missing out on a lot of lessons. We see the same thing though, the guys who practice the QDM effectively around us are the ones harvesting the older deer.

In my opinion, serious QDMers eventually learn not to care about what the neighbors or others are doing, especially once they are successful with their program.

Couldn't agree more. Worrying about others just takes away from what you are trying to do, and it takes enjoyment out of it. Surrounding areas will always reap the benefit from QDM properties, I see it every year. One thing you can't do is get in a wad about it. I personally am very enthusiastic when surrounding neighbors actually see results from what others are doing, it's just one step closer to getting them on the bandwagon with you.

007...great post. I agree with most all that

 

[deerchaser007]

I have noticed a certain theme to the usual grumbling about someone shooting a certain buck. Not just on here but out in the real world talking to other hunters.

Its hard to explain but here goes.

I have noticed that a lot of hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they passed. Not only that but hunters get mad when someone kills a deer they deem inferior or too young/small/not a trophy buck. There are a lot of posts about someone being jealous because a neighbor is hunting too close to the property line and shooting "my" deer, or one coming off "My managed property".

Could this be an unintended side effect of QDM? It seems that a lot of hunters develop feelings of ownership toward deer once they start down the QDM path.

Anyone else notice this attitude shift? THoughts?

Yes there are folks who run down others for shooting small deer. I can't relate to it myself ,. for i'm not gonna tell'em what to shoot. BUT,.. BUTTTT,. if they say 1 word about they ain't no big deer to shoot , or TN can't produce trophy's,.. or i didn't pass him cause someone else would shoot,.. i speak my mind like a flea on a dog. I'm gonna let someone have it. I don't care if they like it or not.
Hunting close to a property line is uncalled for. Especially if the hunter knows there are other hunters on the adjoining land. BUT,.. if it is unhunted land next door there ain't a problem. Most hunters will shoot deer across the property lines,.. and that ain't right. It should be in the hunter ethics book not to hunt within 50 yards of a property line were other hunters are present. My opinion..

I don't think hunters feel a ownership toward the deer,. i think its all jealousy. Heck,. i'll be honest. I get a litle jealous sometimes when i see BSK, wes,and all these other qdm guys post pics of these bruisers. BUT,.. at the same time it gives me hope that someday myself and my neighbors can acheive the same goal. Sometimes alittle jealousy is good for a person,.. especially if it inspires them to work harder and become smarter at what they are trying to achieve. BUT,. there are always them ones that let the jealousy take over. AND,.. they are only hurting themselves in my opinion.
Hope that answered your question. If not,... try to focus on the goods of qdm and not the bads. An apple tree is always gonna produce apples,....... some good-some bad. Just throw the bad ones to the side and focus on the good ones. I think you know what i mean...:grin:

Jeremy,

Dang, that was well said. How long you been pondering this one?
I couldn't said that better if I would have worked on it for a couple days! Agree 100%.

I didn't ponder on it,.. it just comes out of me. I'm typically a quiet person. BUT,. if i see a chance to open up on how i feel,.. i kick the door wide open and dive all in.:grin:

 

[fishboy1]

Excellent points.

What I wonder is IF the average Joe, hunting show watching, 4 point shooting, public land hunter will ever make it to the level of understanding that you guys have.

The Hardcore qdm guys USUALLY have a piece of private property to control and manage. There is a certain amount of feedback that you get by managing your own land. You can see the results and get to reap the benefits. Most importantly, you excercise CONTROL over your hunting experience.

The average Joe does not get to see those benefits. He hunts a couple weekends a year and just wants to kill a deer to take home. That is his reality. Maybe he will get lucky and a mature buck will make a mistake and blunder in. Chances are, he will shoot the first legal deer because that is likely to be his only chance to kill a deer with his limited hunting time.

Nothing wrong with that but how likely is it that this guy is going to "buy in" to the whole QDM thing if his reality is 3-4 hunting opportunites a year on Public land? At some point, Joe average is going to say "QDM doesn't work!" OR worse yet, the jealousy factor will kick in and you will hear "I passed on that 4 pointer and some idgit on the next ridge shot him"

Have any of you QDMA guys discussed this possible PR problem for QDM and the "average hunter"?

 

[RUGER]

I have noticed it and I have been guilty of complaining about someone shooting a buck I let walk.
With that said, however, the only reason I complained was because he shot it on opening morning of rifle season then 10 minutes later he shot ANOTHER yearling buck.
Needless to say that was my last year on that lease. No, I didn't turn him in as before I learned of it, both deer were tagged by different people and had already been processed.

I personally have no problem with anyone killing anything as long as it is done legally.

 

[kholmes]

"worrying about others just takes away from what you are trying to do,and it takes enjoyment out of it"


I will be honest and say that I do worry about what is going on next door. I put a lot of time and effort and money into our farm and I want to see it succeed. I feel like a used car salesman sometimes going to the neighbors that hunt trying to get them to participate. Granted a couple we're very receptive and a couple could care less.
One neighbor suggested that we needed to kill all the little bucks so the big ones would have some does to breed. It is ignorance like that makes me worry and question my time spent on a tractor or lugging a backpack sprayer.
Aside from that it is the most fun anyone can have while working your butt off all spring and summer. and I remain steadfast that it will payoff, hopefully in the near future.

 

[kholmes]

fishboy1,
I don't think that QDM is for the average hunter. You are right that someone that hunts a couple of times a year could care less about letting a 4 pt or spike go. I believe that QDM is for the hunter that has "been there and done that" so to speak. One who has shot his fair share of 4 pointers and wants to shoot a big mature whitetail. And yes a controlled hunting environment is a big part of it.

 

[deerchaser007]

Excellent points.

What I wonder is IF the average Joe, hunting show watching, 4 point shooting, public land hunter will ever make it to the level of understanding that you guys have.

The Hardcore qdm guys USUALLY have a piece of private property to control and manage. There is a certain amount of feedback that you get by managing your own land. You can see the results and get to reap the benefits. Most importantly, you excercise CONTROL over your hunting experience.

The average Joe does not get to see those benefits. He hunts a couple weekends a year and just wants to kill a deer to take home. That is his reality. Maybe he will get lucky and a mature buck will make a mistake and blunder in. Chances are, he will shoot the first legal deer because that is likely to be his only chance to kill a deer with his limited hunting time.

Nothing wrong with that but how likely is it that this guy is going to "buy in" to the whole QDM thing if his reality is 3-4 hunting opportunites a year on Public land? At some point, Joe average is going to say "QDM doesn't work!" OR worse yet, the jealousy factor will kick in and you will hear "I passed on that 4 pointer and some idgit on the next ridge shot him"

Have any of you QDMA guys discussed this possible PR problem for QDM and the "average hunter"?

Yes i have talked to average joe public land hunter that just rifle hunts 2 to 3 times ayear. And 95 percent of them said they would gladly take a doe if the gun stamp allowed it without additional cost. They also understand that in order for a buck or doe to get bigger ,. they must age. 70 percent of those i talked to said if limits were different,. it would change their view of buck hunting on public land. Cause it would force everyone onto the same page. THe other 30 percent just want to see deer. AND,.. feel qdm will greatly reduce their deer sitings while on stand. And when asked if they would not like the challenge of the hunt .. the response was simply want to see deer every time they go to the woods. When asked what do you think that would do for the overall deer herd. Response was the deer herd is someone elses responsibility ,.. they just want to see them.

Some folks you just can't reach..........BUT,. heck ,.. talk to other hunters. You would be surprised at the amount of hunters out there that are willing to change if they see others will change with them. AND,. change is good sometimes!!

 

[hambone]

This is my third year hunting. The way I wanted to hunt and what I knew would bring me the most enjoyment was to practice QDM. Early in the season last year the only place I had to hunt was 800 acres that anybody could hunt. The first morning we were standing around and some guys brought out four spikes and were complaining about how they never see any large bucks. In total the year before they killed seven 1 1/2 - 2 year olds. Now to me it made perfect sense why they weren't seeing larger deer but it was not my place to tell them how to hunt, all I could do was hunt the way I chose to. This year I am blessed to be on some land that I have the ability to establish food plots, sanctuaries and practice QDM. I get a great deal of enjoyment from just putting in the food plots and seeing them grow and also watching deer and learning about them. For me QDM is about attraction rather than promotion. It isn't for someone to "buy into" it is a choice. I try not to let someone else's legal hunting choice affect my time enjoying the sport that I love. Regardless of where I hunt, I practice QDM, and I consider myself the average hunter. I just choose to hunt a different way than some people.

 

[156p&y]

Fish I agree with you, but one thing that sticks out is my mind is you can practice QDM anywhere; that is what makes it so special. It's really how you hunt not necessarily the land you have, exactly how hambone states it. I've taken many deer from none QDM land that would normally be considered "not to exist". But I do agree many hunters often let outside influences dictate what they deem a shooter, especially on public land. I would do the same myself. You don't have to have the same property every season to practice it, like I once thought so myself.

 

[BSK]

The Hardcore qdm guys USUALLY have a piece of private property to control and manage. There is a certain amount of feedback that you get by managing your own land. You can see the results and get to reap the benefits. Most importantly, you excercise CONTROL over your hunting experience.

Absolutely correct. QDM always works best on land that can be controlled in every way, from hunter densities to habitat.

The average Joe does not get to see those benefits. He hunts a couple weekends a year and just wants to kill a deer to take home. That is his reality. Maybe he will get lucky and a mature buck will make a mistake and blunder in. Chances are, he will shoot the first legal deer because that is likely to be his only chance to kill a deer with his limited hunting time.

Nothing wrong with that but how likely is it that this guy is going to "buy in" to the whole QDM thing if his reality is 3-4 hunting opportunites a year on Public land?

Minimal. And that's why QDM isn't for everybody. I don't expect the average Joe hunting public land to practice QDM. Nor do I ask him to unless the public land is being managed for older bucks. Anyone that hunts 3-4 times per year will not benefit from QDM.

 

[BSK]

Early in the season last year the only place I had to hunt was 800 acres that anybody could hunt. The first morning we were standing around and some guys brought out four spikes and were complaining about how they never see any large bucks.

I always congratulate any successful hunter, no matter what they kill. But as someone else mentioned, if I see hunters killing yearling bucks and then complaining how they don't see any "good bucks" I do nicely explain to them why they aren't seeing any older bucks--because they're killing them when they are young. Sometimes they "get it" and sometimes they are uncomprehending.

 

[fishboy1]

Fish I agree with you, but one thing that sticks out is my mind is you can practice QDM anywhere; that is what makes it so special. It's really how you hunt not necessarily the land you have, exactly how hambone states it. I've taken many deer from none QDM land that would normally be considered "not to exist". But I do agree many hunters often let outside influences dictate what they deem a shooter, especially on public land. I would do the same myself. You don't have to have the same property every season to practice it, like I once thought so myself.

156,
I agree and disagree with you both.
The part that I disagree with points out the problem with QDM and hunter perception.

QDM'ers preach #1. Let em walk. #2. Let em walk. #3. Food plots. Only diehard QDM guys say #1. habitat management #2. Population control through doe harvests #3. Buck age limits.

QDM is a whole package and the media is doing a pretty lame job making that point. I feel that the "let em walk" crowd is creating negative feelings in the Joe average hunter. The perception is "Oh he wants me to pass on my only chance to take a deer this season so it can grow up and he can kill it on the other side of the fence....Screw QDM"

 

[TAS]

I think the problem is people confuse trophy management with QDM.