Inheritance and its problems

DaveTN

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Messages
9,664
Location
Middle Tennessee
Yes it does.
I'd be curious how?

My wife and I both have children from other marriages. Whichever one of us dies first; the other one gets everything. We built our wealth together over the last 30 years. I'll probably die before she does, unless we agree on it in the wills, I'm not aware of anything that would make her give my kids anything after I'm gone.

However, I told her if any kids are left out, they would contest the will and the lawyers would get most of it.
 

Chaneylake

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
41,465
Location
on the wings of a snow white dove
I'm going to fill you in on a little secret…..Wills are "ok" but they STILL will have to go through probate REGARDLESS in Tennessee. Now if that goes smoothly or NOT is the question. I'm banking on it NOT going smoothly and it WILL BE CONTESTED. When it gets contested and if there is not a "equal agreeable" solution I can tell you that things will start to get COURT ORDERED to be sold and the proceeds will be split. The longer it gets contested and the longer it takes to settle WILL EAT at the cost and it will not be cheap. If your dad is not 100% frame of mind then that will be brought up and factored into any Will that was made and judges don't like to try and pick if he was or was not in the right frame of mind and will take the route of liquidation of things. For the benefit and safety of his legacy and if he's up to it do a quick and straight forward IRREVOCABLE TRUST. A trust will not be subjected to probate and it 99.9999% can't be contested. Fund the trust with what y'all want to keep safe. If you only knew what kind of HUGE mess I'm dealing with on a large scale about this exact same thing basically as we speak. Shoot me a PM with your number and I'll holler at you and recommend my estate attorney that's a good good friend of mine that I've dealt with and still dealing with.
My mother died in 2019.
She had an extremely great will.

I handled her wishes after her death. Dad had died in 2008.

My older brother was and still is an azz wipe. He raised a ton of hello.

The estate was rather large and I "Never was in the courthouse nor in front of a Judge"
No Probate court in Tennessee if all bases are properly touched.
 

Wildcat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2000
Messages
72,102
Location
Western Ky.
Like I said all states have different laws.

My cousin, whom I travel with lives in Michigan. Both she and her brother were adopted. The boy took a bad turn somewhere down the road and the only one that would talk to him on the phone is the mother. When the father died he left everything to the wife and the daughter and never left the boy anything. She told me a few years ago when she and her mother were at the lawyer's to update her will. She told her lawyer that she wanted it in the will to NOT give the boy anything, she wanted it spelled out in plain English (her words). Her lawyer told her never do that but to LEAVE HIS NAME OUT. He said once someone's name is anywhere in the will he can and will contest it because he will have a case, it can drag on for years. So do not ever put his name in there. This is what my cousin told me. It could really get bad if they made any mistakes with the will because we are talking about $ millions.

Here is something else from Kentucky. My own will is simple, my one brother gets it all. The other person I named is my niece. The simple reason for that is because my brother and his wife both perform all over the world, they always travel together. Both are on the same plane, same shi[p, same auto, etc. So if something happens the odds are it will happen to both of them at the same time.
 

gatodoc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,692
Location
harriman. TN
The more I think about it, this is really the key. My fear is that those who will want to be bought out will seek an assessment from one of the high-end hunting property dealers. In their hands, the land value could easily be triple what a basic land assessment would be, considering the location, habitat management, hunting lodge, long history of data collection, and proof of what the property regularly produces. I think we could buy out those wanting out based on a basic land value. But buy them out based on what the high-end dealers would assess it at? Not a chance.

We need to get everyone to agree on an assessment now that will be used as the basis for all financial payouts.
Make a buy sell. You either buy it sell for a price. Capitalism at its best.
 

Big Chief200

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2023
Messages
79
Location
Lascassas, TN
I'd be curious how?

My wife and I both have children from other marriages. Whichever one of us dies first; the other one gets everything. We built our wealth together over the last 30 years. I'll probably die before she does, unless we agree on it in the wills, I'm not aware of anything that would make her give my kids anything after I'm gone.

However, I told her if any kids are left out, they would contest the will and the lawyers would get most of it.
You can structure a Will to cover all possible out comes and it is a legally binding document. In your respounce you answered your own question "unless we agree on it in the wills". That is why you have a Will to make sure your wishes are carried out.
 

gatodoc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
2,692
Location
harriman. TN
Establish what you think is a fair market value. Be willing to sell or buy at that price. If some can't afford it they'll have the income from it. they shouldn't own it if they can't or won't pay for it. It has a value.
 

BigAl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Messages
21,046
Location
Fayette County, TN US
Except I'm not sure some of the family members that want to stay in could afford to buy out those who want out. The value of the property is quite substantial.
I've been meaning to ask. You and your hunting siblings have put a lot of time and money into the place, which would have to account for a higher value. Need to find some way to get that settled. Isn't there a cabin? Who paid for that? Or was that paid out of timber funds?
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
80,603
Location
Nashville, TN
Establish what you think is a fair market value. Be willing to sell or buy at that price. If some can't afford it they'll have the income from it. they shouldn't own it if they can't or won't pay for it. It has a value.
Except the whole point is to preserve the property. We've put almost 40 years into the place. A couple of the family have spent almost 40 years pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into it. In the few hunting years we have left (maybe 10-15 at most) we could never buy another place and turn it into anything like what we have now. And that goes far beyond just the hunting. The property has become THE spot for the family to gather because of the amenities we've been into the place over the years. That would be gone.
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
80,603
Location
Nashville, TN
I've been meaning to ask. You and your hunting siblings have put a lot of time and money into the place, which would have to account for a higher value. Need to find some way to get that settled. Isn't there a cabin? Who paid for that? Or was that paid out of timber funds?
The original cabin (small, built in 1994) was paid for by my father. The two additions, which have more than doubled the structure's size, have been paid for by timber revenues. As per my father's Will, the timber revenue account is also jointly owned by all the siblings.
 

moondawg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
24,839
Location
Millington, TN
Honestly, all of the siblings seem to be just fine with all of us owning the property equally. We have discussed it openly. Not one has said they want out. But I know some of the spouses and children very well, and I can see the wheels turning in their heads.
Just my two cents: It's up to you and the siblings. It's not up to the spouses and children.
 

Urban_Hunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
6,703
Location
Hendersonville
I think you are confusing "appraisal" with "assessment". You can list any property you want through a realtor of your choice for any amount you desire. I can list my property for $100 million if I want. That is what whitetail properties does or can do. Their "assessment" means nothing. The land value is based on the "appraisal", which is the amount of money a bank would be willing to lend on the land, which is typically 75-80% of the appraised value (with you bringing the additional 20-25% to close). Just because the beat up 1974 model 700 30-06 is $1500 at the gun show doesn't mean it's worth that, especially when it comes to court or insurance. The appraisal is based off of historical data and local comps. Listed properties (and their exorbitant price) is not factored into comps, therefore not factored into appraisals. Any legal dispute would go to appraisal value, not what the sister-in-law thinks she could get with zero knowledge/experience in the field. You could get multiple appraisals and go with the average… a boutique realtor (mossy oak/whitetail) would have zero bearing
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
80,603
Location
Nashville, TN
I think you are confusing "appraisal" with "assessment". You can list any property you want through a realtor of your choice for any amount you desire. I can list my property for $100 million if I want. That is what whitetail properties does or can do. Their "assessment" means nothing. The land value is based on the "appraisal", which is the amount of money a bank would be willing to lend on the land, which is typically 75-80% of the appraised value (with you bringing the additional 20-25% to close). Just because the beat up 1974 model 700 30-06 is $1500 at the gun show doesn't mean it's worth that, especially when it comes to court or insurance. The appraisal is based off of historical data and local comps. Listed properties (and their exorbitant price) is not factored into comps, therefore not factored into appraisals. Any legal dispute would go to appraisal value, not what the sister-in-law thinks she could get with zero knowledge/experience in the field. You could get multiple appraisals and go with the average… a boutique realtor (mossy oak/whitetail) would have zero bearing
This is interesting. I know almost exactly what appraisal value would be (I know what land is actually selling for in the area and approximately what the home is worth). As long as buyouts are based on local appraisal value, we could probably swing it.
 

Urban_Hunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
6,703
Location
Hendersonville
This is interesting. I know almost exactly what appraisal value would be (I know what land is actually selling for in the area and approximately what the home is worth). As long as buyouts are based on local appraisal value, we could probably swing it.
Maybe unrelated, but in the past few years this has became a problem. Realtors are obviously salesmen, so many of them would go door to door asking people if they're interested in selling. Most were not. However, they would say something like "you paid $150,000 3 years ago and I can get you $300,000 today!". At which point, a few would agree to list, based on the $300,000 assumption. The realtor is just looking for their 3%, so they just want the sale. They'd list at $300… then drop to 280…250….225… and get an offer at market value of 210 and say "woohoo I sold your home and put $$$ in your pocket!" (Which is just the current market value increase over that timespan). Because so many properties are advertised over fair market value, "asking price" has no meaning in the realm of appraisal. We just today purchased/closed on an investment property that closed 27% under asking price…
 

BSK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 1999
Messages
80,603
Location
Nashville, TN
Maybe unrelated, but in the past few years this has became a problem. Realtors are obviously salesmen, so many of them would go door to door asking people if they're interested in selling. Most were not. However, they would say something like "you paid $150,000 3 years ago and I can get you $300,000 today!". At which point, a few would agree to list, based on the $300,000 assumption. The realtor is just looking for their 3%, so they just want the sale. They'd list at $300… then drop to 280…250….225… and get an offer at market value of 210 and say "woohoo I sold your home and put $$$ in your pocket!" (Which is just the current market value increase over that timespan). Because so many properties are advertised over fair market value, "asking price" has no meaning in the realm of appraisal. We just today purchased/closed on an investment property that closed 27% under asking price…
I completely get this. But at the same time, I know what turn-key hunting ranches are worth. Not locally, but to the big dollar out-of-town and out-of-stater. At what locals would consider insane prices, those from the bigger cities in TN, and more importantly, the more affluent hunters from Louisiana, south MS and AL, and central Florida, these prices are a steal. Some will say, "But thy aren't actually buying these places at those prices." Actually, they are. That's why about a third of my clients in western Middle TN are from Louisiana and central Florida. The hunting and land prices here are so much better than where they're from. That's why it's worth it to them to make the long drive. And turn-key ranches are at a real premium.
 

volboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2021
Messages
1,008
Location
middle tn
As also stated in my other post. A will does not matter if the spouse is still alive no matter what your dad wanted you to have.
Is this in TN? I didn't think so.
A relative passed almost 2 years ago. His spouse had passed before him and he remarried. He had large estate. When he died he had will. Some went to his kids, grandkids, great grandkids. Also, in the will, his new spouse got some as well as her kids and grandkids.
I am fairly certain that just because there is a spouse or new spouse, does not mean a will is not adhered to. Now if there is Not a will, then yes it would all go to serving spouse

If what you say is correct and the law, then why do kids/other relatives contest the way assets are distributed, IF that is the law?
 

Gravey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
38,708
Location
Christiana (Rutherford County)
Except I'm not sure some of the family members that want to stay in could afford to buy out those who want out. The value of the property is quite substantial.
It would suck from a sentimental standpoint and the blood, sweat, and tears you've put in but if it came down to it sell the whole thing then take your part and buy another farm. Starting over would suck and you more than likely wouldn't have the amount of land you do now but it would be YOURS.
 
Top