How will CWD spread?

hammer33

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Oct 26, 2018
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586
Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?
 

Buzzard Breath

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Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?
You don't have your location in your profile. Do you currently hunt in a CWD zone and are speaking from experience?
 

fairchaser

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Sep 13, 2011
Messages
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TN, USA
Here is my .o2.
For the average hunter cwd is a non issue. The vast majority of hunters are not trophy hunters. Since CWD mostly takes out the older animals, (and not a huge % of them) the average joe wont notice. Heck the average public land trophy hunter probably wont notice. Especially since other factors such as EHD, other hunters, old age, and autos are more likely to kill that big buck than CWD.

Now the guys who farm deer on captive ranches can have huge losses. When bucks are bringing $10k + if one of them gets CWD its an expensive loss. Just like if your prize bull dies its costly.

Guys who hunt intensively managed properties where each buck is known by trail camera photos and have a hit list..... they will notice if cwd takes out one of their target bucks. High fence game ranches are in the same boat.

Management agencies from a $$$ perspective LOVE cwd. Big budgets and federal $$$$$$ are being allocated to study and "deal" with it. Most game agencies answer is to "kill more deer and reduce the herd". Isn't that what they are afraid CWD will do? Kill a bunch of deer and reduce the herd? Northern states who went the "kill 2/3 of the herd" route still have CWD. So that method of control didn't work. Might have slowed the spread, Maybe? But it is still around and possibly killing all those deer could have contributed to the spread with concentrations of carcasses.

Fear and hype are the enemy of methodical logical thought, and CWD gets plenty of both. Now that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is in the mix, don't expect any official solution that doesn't require a large ongoing budget.

IS cwd the looming doom of deer hunting and possibly the human race IF it jumps species ?
I think NO.
I think it is entirely possible that CWD is a form of "deer scrapie" like the scrapie that affects sheep. Its probably always been around but only recently with high fence deer ranching and the advancement of testing, have we known what killed a deer. Prior to deer ranching, a random carcass found in the wild would be attributed to any number of factors.
I believe the biggest factor in CWD is the deer farming and extremely high density in the high fences which concentrates the deer. Much like how one sick kid will give 2/3 the toddlers in a preschool class the flu. Concentrating deer, sheep, or kids allows an infection the opportunity to quickly run through the group. Once it gets outside the high fence has it run through the wild herds knocking off 1/2 or more of the wild herds? Nope.

I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is for dealing with CWD. Perhaps it is hubris to believe that "we" need to "deal with it" at all. Maybe CWD is a naturally occurring illness like EHD, lumpy jaw, bot flys and a host of other issues ?
I agree with most of this! I will add that as a hunter that has hunted in the center of CWD on Ames for the last 13 years, CWD has had an impact on the older bucks. There are fewer of them but it hasn't seemed to hurt the 3.5 year old cohort as much as the 4.5 year olds. This is not scientific but anecdotal from mine and other members camera surveys. There are still good bucks out there. But the 140 class 4.5+ year old buck is extremely rare anymore.
 

BSK

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I agree with most of this! I will add that as a hunter that has hunted in the center of CWD on Ames for the last 13 years, CWD has had an impact on the older bucks. There are fewer of them but it hasn't seemed to hurt the 3.5 year old cohort as much as the 4.5 year olds. This is not scientific but anecdotal from mine and other members camera surveys. There are still good bucks out there. But the 140 class 4.5+ year old buck is extremely rare anymore.
What has been the buck harvest numbers in the area since the beginning of CWD harvest rules? I ask because killing more total bucks is the fastest way to reduce the buck age structure. Is the reduced buck age structure in the area due to CWD killing the mature animals, or is the reduced buck age structure due to more bucks being killed by hunters?
 

BigAl

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Fayette County, TN US
What has been the buck harvest numbers in the area since the beginning of CWD harvest rules? I ask because killing more total bucks is the fastest way to reduce the buck age structure. Is the reduced buck age structure in the area due to CWD killing the mature animals, or is the reduced buck age structure due to more bucks being killed by hunters?
I'll let @fairchaser answer this, but Ames did away with their buck regs and declared open season (I think). So your question is valid. But I believe they will tell you the lack of mature buck sightings had already decreased as a result of CWD before the restrictions were changed.
 

Tenn bound

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They say nose to nose contact thats why you dont want to run feeders,lick blocks ,ect ,ect .its comeing,quicker than they Anticipated.but its not new it started in california in cattle and sheep they do have antidotes for this disease but they wonte use it.to costly to distrabute.and being the twr is a private Identity and run by insurance companys are deer hunting are doomed.
 

GRIT

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Do they test all the county's in Tennessee? I haven't heard of any testing in Davidson, Cheatham or any county in middle Tennessee.
It may be hear if they don't test for it you're not going to know.
 

BSK

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They say nose to nose contact thats why you dont want to run feeders,lick blocks ,ect ,ect .its comeing,quicker than they Anticipated.but its not new it started in california in cattle and sheep they do have antidotes for this disease but they wonte use it.to costly to distrabute.and being the twr is a private Identity and run by insurance companys are deer hunting are doomed.
CWD did not start in California. It first occurred in a research facility in Colorado, when mule deer were kept in an enclosure that had previously held scrappie infected sheep. Then, without knowing the mule deer had contracted the prion disease, the deer were released to the wild. There is no antidote for prion-based diseases.
 

Lost Lake

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Do they test all the county's in Tennessee? I haven't heard of any testing in Davidson, Cheatham or any county in middle Tennessee.
It may be hear if they don't test for it you're not going to know.
I had a buck tested by TWRA in Bedford county at Potts Processing back in 2018. They were set up testing all weekend.
 
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BSK

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Do they test all the county's in Tennessee? I haven't heard of any testing in Davidson, Cheatham or any county in middle Tennessee.
It may be hear if they don't test for it you're not going to know.
Back when CWD first became a big scare, the TWRA, and just about every Southeastern state, did sample testing state-wide and found nothing. But that was perhaps 15-20 years ago?
 

Andy S.

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Atoka, TN
I have been out of Ames for several years now, but I highly suspect the membership is not killing "more" of anything, except "maybe" more time on stand without a mature buck sighting (4.5+). Photo below shows the 2021 deer season numbers and positive rates for Ames deer hunting club. 28 bucks killed is about 2/3 of what we killed 8-10 years ago, and we had antler restrictions back then. Today Ames is "brown it's down" from a buck perspective, so the 28 below did not have to meet any antler restriction, however they did require a doe kill before (basically earn a buck to get members to shoot does). Total deer kill across all of Fayette and Hardeman counties has been trending down for a decade or more. 5k or so killed in each county in 2013, 4k or so 2016, 3k or so here recently, with 2021 dipping to 2,600 or so. Recent numbers include earlier firearm season start (31Oct22) and later firearm season closing date (31Jan23), replacement buck tags, free licenses, and other ideas to incentivize overall harvest to reduce deer density.

8FFDB63D-0D6E-432B-A4BD-A172EB778503.jpeg
 
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Andy S.

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Dang!! 57% positive on bucks and almost 50% positive on all deer.
Correct, for that one localized data set for 2021 deer season. This season (2022), the buck rate was 53% or so, and the does were 33%. Of course, one can expect a higher positive rate for older deer who have been on the landscape and around the infected herd longer (more days of their life).
 

Huntaholic

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Its here, its not going away and we can either live with it or turn vegan. You folks dont realize the depth of this. Ive been hunting in CWD areas since 1994. SEVERAL years ago there was the whole mad cow, cwd, crutzfeld jacobs disease debacle. Folks ITS ALL THE SAME! I have never been an investor in my life but there WAS a business that was on the verge of developing a LIVE test for it so I bought in. In case you dont know, the cattle and beef industry has a HUGE control over what goes on with our food. Remember when Japan banned importation of US beef? I do. The thing with a live test is any animals that test positive have to be destroyed obviously. Rather than let that happen, this little company with a live test for it, mysteriously vanished. My paultry stock investment with it of course and Im fine with that. The powers that be arent going to let the peasants know how deep their levels of control go.
 

Huntaholic

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Pronghorn arent SUPPOSED to be able to catch it and for 20 years I hunted dead in the middle of the "hot zone" for CWD in deer and elk. Do I believe antelope dont catch it? LMFAO!!!!!!! here drink this coolaid! I made the decision decades ago that we are all gonna die from something, we aint getting out of here alive, and if its from a cwd infected animal, so be it.
 

BSK

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Pronghorn arent SUPPOSED to be able to catch it and for 20 years I hunted dead in the middle of the "hot zone" for CWD in deer and elk. Do I believe antelope dont catch it? LMFAO!!!!!!! here drink this coolaid! I made the decision decades ago that we are all gonna die from something, we aint getting out of here alive, and if its from a cwd infected animal, so be it.
Personally, I'm not worried about catching a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) disease from eating a CWD infected deer. Do date, no one has. Now some will say that's only because not enough people have eaten an infected deer. I don't know about that. With Mad Cow Disease (MCD), which is known to be transmissible to humans, in Europe an estimate 38 million people ate MCD infected beef. Of those, 206 people were infected. That's a rate of 5.4 people per million people who ate the infected meat. I'll bet more than a million people have eaten CWD infected venison, and no one has caught the disease yet.
 

Grnwing

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I thought about trying to call it in but figured it'd be luck for Twra to catch up with them. Then I thought about TWRAs apparent determination to kill as many deer in west TN as possible and these guys doing their part. The hunters were between a rock and a hard place. Live outside CWD zone. Hunt CWD zone. Collect deer but no way to wait for testing unless using a processor in the zone.

I guess their best move would have been to debone meat in the field and bury carcasses and transport meat. That would have been a heck of a job and many feel unqualified.

At any rate, I'm resigned to the fact that it's here to stay and spread is inevitable. The only question is how fast.

I hunt right in the epicenter in Fayette county. Last year we had 50% positive. This year 8 tested one positive. Herd seems unaffected with the only oberved change is a lack of aged bucks but that may be false observation.
This is pretty much what I do when I bring a deer back from Arkansas. I debone in the field, cape may or may not come back and I keep a saw in the truck for the skull plate along with some other supplies to clean skull plate. It's alot of work but that is what the laws require.
 

fairchaser

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What has been the buck harvest numbers in the area since the beginning of CWD harvest rules? I ask because killing more total bucks is the fastest way to reduce the buck age structure. Is the reduced buck age structure in the area due to CWD killing the mature animals, or is the reduced buck age structure due to more bucks being killed by hunters?
I can't speak for the surrounding area but on Ames we have killed fewer deer, fewer bucks and significantly fewer mature bucks. Last season only two bucks were aged 4.5 or older for a total of 27 bucks total killed with only 5 scoring 125 gross. In prior seasons before CWD, the club killed an average of 30 bucks aged 4.5 or at least 125 gross with 40-45 bucks total killed in a season. This season only 75 total deer were killed which is roughly half the deer killed in seasons before CWD. Also, we have 55 hunters compared with 80-90 hunters in prior years before CWD. These anomalies can be explained in a number of ways but certainly CWD has played a role.
 
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