Does & Fawns

[Shooter77]

It's been a tough season for me, I've seen a few does and small bucks mostly. had 1 shooter that I couldn't get a shot on Thursday pm. yesterday I hunted from 6 till 3. I seen 1 deer just at shooting light, no clue what it was. Then at 1:15, I look up and saw a doe & fawn come out in my 1/4 acre plot. I debated for almost 30 mins if I should shoot since it was a doe with a fawn when I know there is many does out there with out fawns. I ended up taking the shot and getting my first of the season.

So my question, what's your thoughts on shooting does with fawns when your managing your property? My property is just across the state line in VA. My goals for this farm is quantity that you see deer most hunts (for kids & my 72 y/o dad) and have at least some 3.5 y/o+ bucks for me to shoot. Kids & dad has free range to shoot any thing. When I started hunting this property in 1995, the doe population was out of control. groups of 40 deer weren't hard to find many times in the season. The state of VA changed the doe days from 2 Saturdays in the 2 week gun and last day of season to entire 2 week early ML, 7 of the 15 days of gun season the last week of season about 8-10 years ago. Couple years ago, they changed to 2 deer a day can be killed also. I've seen a shift in does w/o fawns and doe family group sizes. A big doe group now is 5 does. That group there will be only 1 fawn. I've had 1 doe (I know not same doe) that has twins every year for past 9 years. This doe always stays by herself with the twins. Never with other does. Same with the doe I shot, she was always by herself with this fawn.

I've seen a increase in bears in my place over last 5 years along with changes to the regs, I feel the deer numbers have taken a toll. Would you protect the does with fawns and only shoot does w/o fawns only?

My neighbor to the west, is 173 acres and doesn't hunt much (mostly buck), my neighbor to the east/south is 119 acres that's buck only and has hunted 1 time this year.

Doe and Fawn from yesterday

 

[Boll Weevil]

Singles, doe with fawns, or in groups makes no difference to me. When the opportunity presents itself and I feel like foolin with em I shoot.

 

[Gravey]

We don't eat venison a lot so pretty much don't shoot does unless somebody asks for one. That said I know the fawns will be fine but I just can't make myself shoot a doe with a fawn.

 

[huvrman]

No does with fawns for me.

 

[Ski]

I don't. If I were in need of meat and it's what I had then maybe I would? But maybe I wouldn't. You're the only one who can answer what you should do. Biologically I don't think it significantly hinders the fawn's ability to survive.

 

[agelessssone]

A mature doe with fawns is fair game (for ME) to help keep the herd in check.
I have no qualms about taking a mature does with 2 babies.
One of the babies will be a buck and one will be a doe. When mama gets ready to
Birth in the spring, the new born buck from the previous year will be ostracized from the area by all mature does, this is to prevent inbreeding

 

[megalomaniac]

Biologically, it makes no difference whether you kill a dry doe, a doe with fawns, or a doe fawn. It's one less mouth to feed, but 1 less deer that could produce a buck fawn the following year...

THATs the real dilemma... whether to shoot a doe at all or not. In MOST cases, shooting one doe isn't going to help or hurt. But there are properties that there are not enough resources to feed the herd, and shooting just one hurts... you need to shoot 7 or 8 to make a difference. Conversely, on properties with abundant food and are well below carrying capacity, why shoot even a single one until the population has a chance to grow to closer to carrying capacity.

All that being said, we (kids) only shoot dry does. We have had so much coyote predation of fawns we never want to kill the momma doe who is smart enough or lucky enough to get her fawn to survive the coyotes. It may or may not be true, but I feel those does are more likely to successfully rear a fawn again the following year compared to the dry does.

 

[Shooter77]

Biologically, it makes no difference whether you kill a dry doe, a doe with fawns, or a doe fawn. It's one less mouth to feed, but 1 less deer that could produce a buck fawn the following year...

THATs the real dilemma... whether to shoot a doe at all or not. In MOST cases, shooting one doe isn't going to help or hurt. But there are properties that there are not enough resources to feed the herd, and shooting just one hurts... you need to shoot 7 or 8 to make a difference. Conversely, on properties with abundant food and are well below carrying capacity, why shoot even a single one until the population has a chance to grow to closer to carrying capacity.

All that being said, we (kids) only shoot dry does. We have had so much coyote predation of fawns we never want to kill the momma doe who is smart enough or lucky enough to get her fawn to survive the coyotes. It may or may not be true, but I feel those does are more likely to successfully rear a fawn again the following year compared to the dry does.

That's been my thought, if she could bring fawns to this point of the season, she should be protected. I've done that with the doe that's had twins for the last 5 years.

 

[skipperbrown]

I don't shoot does with fawns. I don't because I did shoot the doe once and her 2 fawns started screaming and running around their dead momma completely traumatized until I got to her and ran them off. They ran into the woods and bleated there until I got her loaded up and left. I felt terrible.

I also once read that orphaned fawns have a much higher incidence of getting hit by cars. However, last week I was hunting near a public road and a doe with 2 yearlings waited until a car was on top of her before crossing the road. One fawn followed immediately and they both almost got hit. The second fawn waited until the car passed and then jumped the road in front of the following car. She could have waited until the traffic passed but once she decided to cross, she crossed.

 

[Popcorn]

A lot depends on the population over the surrounding area 2500 to 5000 acres or more. At a glance I would suggest producing more high quality food, good cover and predator reduction. Congrats on the doe consider the fawn and make it a double!

 

[BSK]

I've seen a shift in... doe family group sizes. A big doe group now is 5 does. That group there will be only 1 fawn.

Although things are different up North, in the Southeast, this is fairly normal. Across the Southeast, I've had the opportunity to work with deer populations that are severely overpopulated, somewhat overpopulated, just right, and extremely low for the habitat. I've seen no hard research on this topic, but observationally I've seen a trend in antlerless social group (related does and their fawns) size and herd density/capacity. When local herds are overpopulated, antlerless social group size can become massive. But when herd density is in line with the habitat, antlerless social group size always falls down to the 4-6 range. This correlation has been so strong, I often use it as an "indicator" of the herd density to habitat relationship.

I've seen a shift in does w/o fawns...

I've seen a increase in bears in my place over last 5 years...

And there's your answer for why the increase in does without fawns. Bears are extremely hard on fawns.