How much property are you talking?
Deer that must survive…..
- Thread starter redblood
- Start date
How much property are you talking?
It's one thing to understand a GPS collared deer because, well, he has a GPS collar. For all the other deer with no collar, we can only guess where they go when they're not on our place. I know they shift from season to season and partially understand some of the reasons why, but the "where" is a mystery. Through years & years of trail cams I have learned seasonal patterns for specific bucks. They're shifts are surprisingly consistent year to year. It's been enough to roughly determine which bucks I can reasonably expect to encounter given a certain time frame and place. But without the GPS collars, who the heck knows where they go when they leave?
BSK
Well-Known Member
I've successfully helped landowners increase the buck age structure (by protecting younger bucks) on 80 acres. But on a property that small, intense habitat management is required. The larger the property, the less detailed and intense the habitat management needs to be to be successful.
The key is, you don't need to protect a buck outside of daylight hours of hunting season. Where a buck goes at night, or outside of deer season, isn't that important (and really can't be controlled effectively). But where he spends the majority of his daylight hours in a high hunting pressure environment can be strongly influenced.
BSK
Well-Known Member
OK, I gotcha, you're saying you don't know where they are. That's very reasonable and true. I'm just saying, knowing how bucks shift their patterns throughout the year can save much frustration for the land manager. Understanding that bucks on the property during summer may not be there in fall - and mentally preparing for that - is important, as is understanding bucks are going to vastly increase their range around the rut, and some will up and leave for a new area during the 5-6 weeks of the rut only to return afterwards are important components to understanding small-land management.
My property is about 100 acres, surrounded three sides by a 10,000 acre state forest. It's steep terrain where three major hollows come to a head. The ridge hub knob is almost the center of my property. If not for the timber I'd most certainly manage the habitat more intensely, but as of now the timber is worth more to me than the deer hunting. The hunting is pretty awesome as is, but I do sometimes contemplate what could be.
Even still I'm not sure how much I could control. Certain bucks stay on the property pretty much year round, and a bout twice as many show up in the fall. Winter is when I have the most. Seems every buck in the county stays on my place in the winter. I assume they tolerate the crowd because of the green food that is so scarce everywhere else, because as soon as spring green hits they leave. The only bucks that remain are the residents. I see some great bucks I'd love to keep & hunt but they won't stay no matter what I do or don't do. I'm not sure how the deer decide who stays & who goes, but they do, and I don't get a say in the matter. Not sure if it's family, dominance, or something else. But it's always the same deer who stay & same deer who leave. Ones that die get replaced. But the numbers & age structures are amazingly pretty dang consistent year to year. I suppose I could hold more deer if I added more cover & more food, but it wouldn't change the fact that I cannot dictate "which" deer that would be. The deer themselves seem to decide that.
BSK
Well-Known Member
And there's the rub. In much of TN, intense habitat management usually means intense timber management. Honestly, the "perfect" property only has 50% timber. The rest would be in a combination of early stage regrowth, rough overgrown fields, oak or pine savannah, and agriculture. Hard to produce that in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, but something close can be done with enough time, energy and unfortunately, money.
It really isn't about changing the seasonal ranges of bucks (although great habitat can have an influence on that). It's more about controlling where a buck is during legal hunting hours. If you can persuade him to spend most of his daylight hours hiding in the sanctuaries you've provided for him, you've upped his odds of living another year.
GOODWIN
Well-Known Member
Shoot his antlers off
Keeping some bucks during daylight isn't a problem. The uncontrollable part is which bucks call it home. Given the habitat and space there is a fairly static population with a fairly static age structure pyramid.
For instance say each hollow has one 5+, a couple 3-4, and some underlings. That represents resident bucks, and then there is an array of other bucks who pass through or spend certain seasons on the property. Ideally I'd like to sample and hand pick each buck that calls my place home, but I can't. The deer sort that stuff out on their own without my consideration. I know there will be a certain number of each age class, but absolutely no control over which particular bucks they will be. The younger they are the more predictable it is. But once dominance contests begin, it's a guessing game. I might want the 160" 10pt 5yr old but a very aggressive 130" 8pt 4yr old might just push him out and take his home. That's an extreme example but that stuff happens.
For instance say each hollow has one 5+, a couple 3-4, and some underlings. That represents resident bucks, and then there is an array of other bucks who pass through or spend certain seasons on the property. Ideally I'd like to sample and hand pick each buck that calls my place home, but I can't. The deer sort that stuff out on their own without my consideration. I know there will be a certain number of each age class, but absolutely no control over which particular bucks they will be. The younger they are the more predictable it is. But once dominance contests begin, it's a guessing game. I might want the 160" 10pt 5yr old but a very aggressive 130" 8pt 4yr old might just push him out and take his home. That's an extreme example but that stuff happens.
I've learned over the years to just to not expect the deer to survive to the age I want him to. I had a deer 3 years ago that had a real good chance to be world class, he was only a 3.5 year old and he was a giant for his age. He had 19 pts, kickers long tines, just about everything. I let him go 3 times bowhunting, I never expected him to survive, but I hoped he would....he didn't. I try to put as many deer in my pocket as I can for the future in hopes that just 1 survives to the next season. A bunch of deer just die and never get shot. I find them often shed hunting. Going into this season, all of my mature deer I had kept tabs on died in the winter. I found the skulls shed hunting. You just never know.
BSK
Well-Known Member
That is a fact. You can influence how many deer are using your property, but you cannot control which deer will use your property.
arkwaterfowler
Well-Known Member
It also depends on a bucks personality. They are all different. I've shot some 3.5s that were all the time seen in daylight. Others rarely come out in the daylight except rut. Also i believe some bucks are homebodies and some are more apt to take undue risk especially under 4.5 years. A lot of factors you can't control but some you can as previously stated.
No joke, i have thought about doing that on previous bucks- but was afraid it could physically harm the deer or break a law
