Business owners HCP question?

Tenn.Guy

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Sep 17, 2007
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2,009
Location
Tenn
As a business owner I have a legal, moral issue.

I carry daily. I don't care if customers carry in my place of business. My concern I have a couple employees getting their HCP. My concern in the event something bad did happen, I don't want to lose everything I have and will have due to a lawsuit.

Any thought or solutions? I worry not only about them making a wrong decision but also someone getting in their purse which they keep behind the desk.

I don't want to step on their 2nd amendment, but don't want to lose everything either. I realize chances are slim, but none the less cause for concern.
 

Diehard Hunter

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Aug 1, 2008
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1) are you an LLC? If not you need to be.

2) develop a policy in conjunction with your lawyer detailing what is expected of your employees. They have a right to carry and protect themselves, but that is all. Make it be known in your policy will not infringe on their right to carry, but they are expected to keep the gun in a secure location at all times and and they are solely responsible for their actions. You might even suggest they purchase and keep a pistol safe at their desk that only they will have access to. You may even consider a cost share with them. That way you have not denied them a right to carry, but you ensure only they can get to the gun.
 

44fanatic

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Listen to Ralph Valentine on this issue.

As an owner, you cannot infringe upon their rights...its your property and you can establish the rules. Only the government can infringe upon your/their rights.

If you are concerned about an incident in the office, have them leave their firearms in their vehicle, or provide them an individual area that they can secure their firearm. You will probably want to have this policy in writting.

It is my impression that you are concerned about the word "hypocrit" being used and that may be your biggest dilema. What type of business do you have? Is there a concern over a type of customer you have? Are the employee's getting the HCP over concerns at work (customer), location of work, tranist to and from work, your encouragment, something "cool" to have, etc? What is the individual maturity level of your employees? Depending on what answers you come up with, may tell you that you are not being hypocritcal...Remember, what is good for the goose, may not always be good for the gander.

If you do have concerns over your employees having to use a firearm while they are at work or on the clock, definitely consult with lawyer as DH has stated.
 

Wildcat

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Western Ky.
Talk to your lawyer first. Different states, different rules/laws so it's best to talk to him first. After talking to him he might or might not want you to talk with your insurance company.

An LLC does "help" but it will not totally protect you here. Remember they are YOUR employees and YOU did allow them to have their guns on YOUR property. At home it's THEIR butts on the line, at YOUR business it's THEIR AND YOUR butts that are on the line.

Talk to your lawyer.
 

W.Seay

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Jan 17, 2006
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Collierville,TN.
Wildcat said:
Talk to your lawyer first. Different states, different rules/laws so it's best to talk to him first. After talking to him he might or might not want you to talk with your insurance company.

An LLC does "help" but it will not totally protect you here. Remember they are YOUR employees and YOU did allow them to have their guns on YOUR property. At home it's THEIR butts on the line, at YOUR business it's THEIR AND YOUR butts that are on the line.

Talk to your lawyer.

X2
 

TAFKAP

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Nov 6, 2009
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Location
Memphis
Tenn.Guy said:
As a business owner I have a legal, moral issue.

I carry daily. I don't care if customers carry in my place of business. My concern I have a couple employees getting their HCP. My concern in the event something bad did happen, I don't want to lose everything I have and will have due to a lawsuit.

Any thought or solutions? I worry not only about them making a wrong decision but also someone getting in their purse which they keep behind the desk.

I don't want to step on their 2nd amendment, but don't want to lose everything either. I realize chances are slim, but none the less cause for concern.

You're concerned that in the relatively rare occasion you get robbed, an even rarer opportunity for one of your employees to shoot presents itself, and you're worried about getting sued?

By whom?

I think it's crappy for business establishments to "be OK" with total strangers carrying in their establishment, but will not allow their own employees. The biggest reason I find this crappy is because no research is ever done on the matter. The easiest excuse people use is fear of getting sued or "my insurance won't let me."

While you figure it out, you might as well let your employees carry. Work with your employees to help ensure you're all on the same tactical page should the situation arise.
 

Trapper John

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Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
12,162
Location
Murfreesboro,TN
TAFKAP said:
Tenn.Guy said:
As a business owner I have a legal, moral issue.

I carry daily. I don't care if customers carry in my place of business. My concern I have a couple employees getting their HCP. My concern in the event something bad did happen, I don't want to lose everything I have and will have due to a lawsuit.

Any thought or solutions? I worry not only about them making a wrong decision but also someone getting in their purse which they keep behind the desk.

I don't want to step on their 2nd amendment, but don't want to lose everything either. I realize chances are slim, but none the less cause for concern.

You're concerned that in the relatively rare occasion you get robbed, an even rarer opportunity for one of your employees to shoot presents itself, and you're worried about getting sued?

By whom?

I think it's crappy for business establishments to "be OK" with total strangers carrying in their establishment, but will not allow their own employees. The biggest reason I find this crappy is because no research is ever done on the matter. The easiest excuse people use is fear of getting sued or "my insurance won't let me."

While you figure it out, you might as well let your employees carry. Work with your employees to help ensure you're all on the same tactical page should the situation arise.

I think he's more concerned with an employee missing the intended target and hitting a customer. Despite TN being fairly civil litigation friendly if the attacker were to sue you, you can still have action taken against you if anyone else is injured. And, as an employer, I'm pretty sure he's responsible for the actions of his employees under that infamous respondeat superior doctrine.

It's a tough one.
 

Tenn.Guy

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Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
2,009
Location
Tenn
Trapper John said:
TAFKAP said:
Tenn.Guy said:
As a business owner I have a legal, moral issue.

I carry daily. I don't care if customers carry in my place of business. My concern I have a couple employees getting their HCP. My concern in the event something bad did happen, I don't want to lose everything I have and will have due to a lawsuit.

Any thought or solutions? I worry not only about them making a wrong decision but also someone getting in their purse which they keep behind the desk.

I don't want to step on their 2nd amendment, but don't want to lose everything either. I realize chances are slim, but none the less cause for concern.

You're concerned that in the relatively rare occasion you get robbed, an even rarer opportunity for one of your employees to shoot presents itself, and you're worried about getting sued?

By whom?

I think it's crappy for business establishments to "be OK" with total strangers carrying in their establishment, but will not allow their own employees. The biggest reason I find this crappy is because no research is ever done on the matter. The easiest excuse people use is fear of getting sued or "my insurance won't let me."

While you figure it out, you might as well let your employees carry. Work with your employees to help ensure you're all on the same tactical page should the situation arise.

I think he's more concerned with an employee missing the intended target and hitting a customer. Despite TN being fairly civil litigation friendly if the attacker were to sue you, you can still have action taken against you if anyone else is injured. And, as an employer, I'm pretty sure he's responsible for the actions of his employees under that infamous respondeat superior doctrine.

It's a tough one.

You hit the nail on the head. Going to talk to a few people for some reasonable solutions. Luckily I'll have some time since they haven't taken their class yet.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
 

Wildcat

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Joined
Jun 10, 2000
Messages
72,102
Location
Western Ky.
TAFKAP said:
Tenn.Guy said:
As a business owner I have a legal, moral issue.

I carry daily. I don't care if customers carry in my place of business. My concern I have a couple employees getting their HCP. My concern in the event something bad did happen, I don't want to lose everything I have and will have due to a lawsuit.

Any thought or solutions? I worry not only about them making a wrong decision but also someone getting in their purse which they keep behind the desk.

I don't want to step on their 2nd amendment, but don't want to lose everything either. I realize chances are slim, but none the less cause for concern.

You're concerned that in the relatively rare occasion you get robbed, an even rarer opportunity for one of your employees to shoot presents itself, and you're worried about getting sued?

By whom?

I think it's crappy for business establishments to "be OK" with total strangers carrying in their establishment, but will not allow their own employees. The biggest reason I find this crappy is because no research is ever done on the matter. The easiest excuse people use is fear of getting sued or "my insurance won't let me."

While you figure it out, you might as well let your employees carry. Work with your employees to help ensure you're all on the same tactical page should the situation arise.

Every police dept in the United States has their own set of lawyers and insurance that covers all the members of the police force. Ever the police UNIONS have their own lawyers and insurance. WHY????

Because ever after millions of dollars training them for years they are human and still make mistakes but still they are "highly" trained. Now what happens when they "make a mistake"?? They and the dept get sued. If they can get sued after spending million of dollars and thousands of hours in the training class rooms what do you think happens to some guy that spend a total of 8 hours in a carry permit class??????

There is a big difference between a customer and a emoloyee and there is a big difference between a employee and a A/C repair man who happens to be working on the business A/C. There is also a difference between a employee and a member of a band that happens to be playing at that business like a night club. this is where I said a LCC will help but not totally protect you.

I have a carry permit and I also have a damn good lawyer and I insurance that covers both me and his costs. If I do make a mistake I'm covered.
 
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