BH209 ignition issues.

[Harold Money jr]

For the second time I had a load of BLackhorn not go off fully. I have a couple Acura's and ordered the special breech plugs for use with BH209. I shoot the good 209 primers and keep the flash hole clean.
The first was last year on a deer at 50yds, I pulled the trigger, the gun went crack, pop. I literally watched the bullet hit the leaves rolling by the deer. The gun had been loaded from the week before.
Last evening I was checking zeroes and used my premeasured loads from last year. The gun went pop and the bullet hit the 20yard plywood that we shoot over to hit the 100yd target. I have some great small plastic test tubes from my pharmacist that seal up perfectly and hold just the right amount of powder. I measure the powder and put it in those tubes immediately and other than carrying in my coat pocket they are stored in an ammo box in a climate controlled closet. I'm pretty concerned, I have a lot of other powder, the issue seems to be when the BH209 is out of the container for a few days. Anybody else have a similar issue?

 

[smyrnagc]

Which bullet are you using? And, is the bullet/sabot a real tight fit? BH209 requires that the bullet be a tight fit. Here is what they say on their website:

Blackhorn 209 – Hodgdon Powder Company

www.blackhorn209.com

 

[wsm]

I use cci mag . primer and never fail to fire hope this helps.

 

[soggybottom]

What primers are you using?
Is there carbon build up in the flash hole?

 

[Carlos]

You need a torch-tip cleaner to clean the breech plug.
Are you sure the powder is good?
Also you're supposed to shoot the 209 Magnum primers with BH powder, not the regular 209 primers.

Hope you figure it out.

 

[Harold Money jr]

I don't believe it's a flash hole issue because the primer alone blows the projectile 20yds. The powder goes from the 1 year old can that's been stored in cool dry place to, watertight tubes that are stored the same. The projectile it a harvester sabot with a .45 300gr xtp seated tightly against the powder. I am shooting regular cci primers that I reload with so that might be the issue. i would've thought they'd do better.
I went to the range with newly measured charges and it shot just as accurately as before within an inch. Oh well we'll see.

 

[Remington700]

Are you shooting 209 magnum primers? They recommend CCI or Federal I believe. It takes a little hotter primer to ignite.

 

[Jmed]

Its not a breech plug issue...its a powder issue. There is only one reason BH 209 would not ignite-moisture. Had the discussion last night; for as much time and money as we spend chasing these critters, I would not be using one year old pre measured load. I keep all my powder in the driest spot in my house-my safe once the seal has been broken on the can...that's just me and my 2 cents

 

[GMB54]

You need a torch-tip cleaner to clean the breech plug.

Thats absurd. Every single time you fire your ML the flash hole gets a tiny bit larger. The flame erodes the flash hole with each shot. The FLASH CHANNEL needs to be cleaned with the correct sized drill bit by hand. The flash channel in a CVA and Western powders BH209 plug is 1/8". The hotter your primer and the more that primer leaks the faster it fills with carbon. Clean it out using a bit within 15 shots and it stays pretty clean and far more reliable.

The real trick to BH209 is use a primer that seals very well and use them in a well designed breech plug. The CVA plugs have a larger OD primer pocket and sloppy head space. You can improve the fit by using a fatter/longer primer like the Nobel/NSI and/or shimming either the primer pocket or the firing pin bushing to get a slight crush on the primer. About .003 crush is the right amount on a break action. Just put in a new primer and close the action without firing it. If the primer is .003 shorter then you are in the zone for primer crush.

I prefer shimming out the firing pin bushing because you maintain more primer IN the primer pocket. Lots of people though have great luck using a shim or o-ring in the primer pocket. If your 209 primer aint leaking all the fire is going to the powder and all the pressure stays in the barrel.

If you want to use a mag primer use the Fed209A its slightly longer than the CCI. Go to McMasters and get a pack of the o-rings if you want the simple method. Put one in the primer pocket. Your 209 wont leak anymore. They last maybe 20 shots each.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

9262K611 from McMaster-Carr
6.5mm OD, 4.5mm ID, 1.0mm thickness Buna-N

Western Powder even includes the o-rings with their version of the CVA plug and the drill bit to clean it.

Blackhorn CVA QR Breech Plug Kit for CVA Optima, Wolf and Accura V2

 

[Harold Money jr]

JMed, You're correct on all levels in my opinion. It is moisture, it seems this bh209 is MUCH more sensitive than the other powders pI've dealt with. I do keep it in the dryest place I know and keep it sealed air tight. I used this stuff to check the zero on my guns. Btw they both shot 6" off from the year before. I haven't had to touch either scope for 2 years but this time I did. I won't hunt without freshly measured powder from this stuff from now on. When/if they do become available I'm gonna try the magnum 209 primers and the drill bit method for cleaning out the breech plug. Thanks for all the assistance, I hope I'm not the only one benefitting.

 

[pockets]

Thats absurd. Every single time you fire your ML the flash hole gets a tiny bit larger. The flame erodes the flash hole with each shot. The FLASH CHANNEL needs to be cleaned with the correct sized drill bit by hand. The flash channel in a CVA and Western powders BH209 plug is 1/8". The hotter your primer and the more that primer leaks the faster it fills with carbon. Clean it out using a bit within 15 shots and it stays pretty clean and far more reliable.

The real trick to BH209 is use a primer that seals very well and use them in a well designed breech plug. The CVA plugs have a larger OD primer pocket and sloppy head space. You can improve the fit by using a fatter/longer primer like the Nobel/NSI and/or shimming either the primer pocket or the firing pin bushing to get a slight crush on the primer. About .003 crush is the right amount on a break action. Just put in a new primer and close the action without firing it. If the primer is .003 shorter then you are in the zone for primer crush.

I prefer shimming out the firing pin bushing because you maintain more primer IN the primer pocket. Lots of people though have great luck using a shim or o-ring in the primer pocket. If your 209 primer aint leaking all the fire is going to the powder and all the pressure stays in the barrel.

If you want to use a mag primer use the Fed209A its slightly longer than the CCI. Go to McMasters and get a pack of the o-rings if you want the simple method. Put one in the primer pocket. Your 209 wont leak anymore. They last maybe 20 shots each.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

9262K611 from McMaster-Carr
6.5mm OD, 4.5mm ID, 1.0mm thickness Buna-N

Western Powder even includes the o-rings with their version of the CVA plug and the drill bit to clean it.

Blackhorn CVA QR Breech Plug Kit for CVA Optima, Wolf and Accura V2

I think that Carlos was talking about using the torch tip cleaner to clean the flash hole. I do this as well.

 

[jetwrnch]

I've got measured loads at least 4 years old. Never had a misfire. Have you tried a different lot of powder? Are you popping a cap or two before loading? I suspect either a bad lot or oil/solvent from the bore. If the load container is air tight it shouldn't matter.

 

[iowavf]

I'm going with the primer you're using. You need either a CCI Mag or Federal 209 primer for blackhorn. My powder set in the garage year around in a cabinet not a sealed safe and in pre measured loads and never had an issue. Only issue I ever had was when the breech plug on my encore started to have too much blow back. The primer was black. Replaced the plug which had a lot of shots put through it, primer was clean and no issues.

 

[GMB54]

I think that Carlos was talking about using the torch tip cleaner to clean the flash hole. I do this as well.

I understand that and im saying the flash hole should need nothing at all. It gets larger each shot. Not smaller from carbon. All a flash hole needs is to be checked for size. Running any thing rough through a flash hole only creates more erosion.

What you can do with the tip cleaners is measure them until you find one that is .036 ON THE SMOOTH PART. Never run the rough part through a flash hole. Now you have a .036 pin gauge to check your plug. When the flash hole is .036 or more the plug or vent liner is shot.

Ive literally sat at a range and shot over 40 loads of BH209 in a day before. The flash HOLE never needed a thing but the flash channel was getting pretty nasty with carbon. Guys swabbing their barrels might have issues shoving fouling back into a plug. I never swab when shooting BH209. Solvents can and do have a really bad effect on ignition if you use too much.

My bore and plug are dry as a bone before the first shot is ever fired. They stay that way until im done shooting BH209. Ive had one hang fire since 2009ish using BH209 and it was pretty much all my fault. I was using the old Knight FPJ plug and i had never cleaned the flash channel. All this time ive used almost nothing but Win209s and ive shot many many lead conicals that load with finger pressure. So you guys with lots of ignition issues have something else going on. My rifles stay loaded all season if unfired. They also stay cold if taken outside in the cold. Even after 2 months loaded they go bang and hit where i aim.

 

[GMB54]

It is moisture, it seems this bh209 is MUCH more sensitive than the other powders pI've dealt with

No its not and i can show you how to prove it. Take a bottle of Triple7 and leave it open. Do the same thing with BH209. See which one clumps first. Even Pyrodex will clump before BH209 will. They all will because of the high organic content. Ive gotten APP made powder that were in clumps before the bottle was even opened. I have never seen clumps in a bottle of BH209 and ive shot lots of bottles of it.

BH209 only has micro amounts of the same stuff compared to other subs. Such as carbon and perchlorates. BH209 is very high in nitrate esters.....Basically the same stuff smokeless powder is made from. You can literally soak BH209 in water and dry it out. It will still fire but not all that great. You cant do that with any other sub im aware of.

 

[Harold Money jr]

GMB54,
I'll try the drill bit and see if I can find those o rings. Like Phil Robertson said once about his shotguns, all I want is boom boom boom. The main thing I want is BOOM.

 

[redblood]

I think the easiest fix is too just swap powders

 

[Deer Assassin]

I think the easiest fix is too just swap powders

this would be the answer

 

[redarm]

One thing on bh209 I've had happen I think was primers and with certain sabots especially Barnes ones that were really tight in my accura I don't think I was seating the sabot all the way. I pushed far but bet I wasn't all the way. Also they want you to use magnums which I wasn't. I hanged fire on a giant in Canada 2 years with 209 and another on a deer I ended up killing but misjudged size. Long story short I completely switched powders. This year no hang fire.

 

[Carlos]

GMB54,
I'll try the drill bit and see if I can find those o rings. Like Phil Robertson said once about his shotguns, all I want is boom boom boom. The main thing I want is BOOM.

Did you miss where everyone said you're supposed to use the 209 MAGNUM PRIMERS?
These aren't the standard 209 primers.