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Baiting vs. Food Plots

grundsow

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Messages
288
Location
Berks County, PA
I don't know if baiting for hunting purposes is legal in Tenn or not. But how do y'all (vernacular intentional :grin: ) view food plots? Considering seed is sold in 1/4-acre plot size and there is no intention to harvest the planted "crops", and terms like "hunting plot" & "killing plot" are thrown around readily�

Are wildlife food plots "baiting" or not?
 
IMHO - Baiting is a poor man's food plot....

There is not a whole lot of difference in taking something in for the deer to eat right now as opposed to bringing something in, plant it and the deer eat it later.

Both are food attractants..
 
grundsow,

That is common debate across the country. Generally, those who do not own property or are not allowed to plant food plots complain food plots are bait. Those who use food plots, and have some real-world experience with them, will say they are not bait.

But much depends on how you define "bait." Without question, very small food plots (1/3-acre or less) certainly are designed to "draw deer" instead of provide better nutrition (unless you have many of these small plots). So in intent, very small plots are created for the same reason bait piles are established--to draw deer to a specific location. However, food plots do not suffer from many of the biological problems associated with bait piles.

So it really comes down to perspective and intent. Can small food plots be considered "baiting?" When drawing deer to a specific small location is the intent, then yes it can be considered "baiting" from a philosophical standpoint. However, biologically there are some real differences in deer utilization. But in intent, they can be the same.
 
Thanks guys, would like to hear more perspective from out of state. Here in PA it�s too heated to discuss with much progress at understanding one another. I believe other states allow hunting over supplemental feeding/bait, and QDMA endorses providing salt/minerals for deer.

PA basically defines �bait� this way. It must be food/minerals (scents, calls & decoys are legal), and it must have been �placed� (not planted). So standing corn/grain is legal to hunt over. However, if one were to bush-hog it down and leave the food lay, or say plow up some turnips and leave them lay, then it would be illegal to hunt over. IMO that�s ridiculous.

Interestingly, �deer baiting� has been made temporarily LEGAL in certain �suburban/urban� zones in an effort to reduce deer density. And now there is a proposal to allow �corn baiting� for all game in all of PA. This has people up in arms.
 
From a legal standpoint, I personally would like to see bait defined by the simple rule: "If it grows out of the ground, it is not bait. If it is poured on the ground, it is bait." However, state's are going to have differing opinions on what is bait. In TN, I believe you can bush-hog standing corn. Also in TN, you can use salt/mineral licks, but only if the product is at least 50% salt. I also believe it can not have any food source in it (like corn mixed with the mineral/salt [but someone correct me if I'm wrong about that]).

When it comes to legalized baiting, ethically I don't have a problem with it. However, biologically I have a huge problem with it. The chances for the spread of disease at bait piles is very high. In addition, I'm concerned about the spread of CWD at salt licks. Salt will kill all living organisms (bacteria, viruses) but there is a possibility it could actually strengthen the CWD prion.
 
A pile of shelled corn is somehow disturbing to me, but I have trouble then defending my bird feeder.

The disease transmission factor at �feeder� sites has me concerned. However, I wonder how justified that concern is considering concentrated deer activity at licking branches, scrapes, and signpost rubs. And just the natural social behavior of deer to yard-up overwinter (at least in the north), and yearling buck dispersal ranges of like 5 to 50 miles from birth range? How significant is a feed site in the big picture, in terms of being a disease vector?
 
BSk, you make some good points....I can agree with if it grows out of the ground it isnt bait...if it is poured out, it is bait...but I would also like to think if it grows out of the ground and is less than say 3-5 acre plot it is bait...because given the right deer population and time of year, an acre of foilage wont last long as primary source of food. As for the comment made by another user people who doesnt have land is against fod plots...not true I have several hundred acres to hunt. I have food plots, due to the fact they are legal...but still in my mind they are no different than having a broadcast feeder with other suppliments. Millet, corn, etc
 
grundsow said:
A pile of shelled corn is somehow disturbing to me, but I have trouble then defending my bird feeder.

The disease transmission factor at �feeder� sites has me concerned. However, I wonder how justified that concern is considering concentrated deer activity at licking branches, scrapes, and signpost rubs. And just the natural social behavior of deer to yard-up overwinter (at least in the north), and yearling buck dispersal ranges of like 5 to 50 miles from birth range? How significant is a feed site in the big picture, in terms of being a disease vector?

Actually, there are some very nasty avian diseases being spread by backyard bird feeders.

Without question, deer have social behaviors that bring body fluids into contact. But why would we want to increases those through feeders? I find it very interesting that the Southeast Wildlife Disease Study Group believes that the two greatest threats to wildlife in America are: 1) the translocation of wildlife (transporting wildlife from place to place); and 2) the artificial feeding of wildlife. Both processes greatly increase the risk of disease spread.

Again, diseases can and will spread naturally, but why would we want to increase those risks? In addition, the artifical feeding of wildlife may be causing major changes in wildlife utilization of the habitat and causing all sorts of other problems. And there is the problems associated with molds and diseases that grow on the feed. Some of the byproducts of those molds are very nasty and can be deadly to wildlife.

Below is a link to one of the most comprehensive studies available on the positive and negative effects of artificial feeding:

http://wildlife1.usask.ca/wildlife_heal ... aiting.pdf
 
backstraps said:
BSk, you make some good points....I can agree with if it grows out of the ground it isnt bait...if it is poured out, it is bait...but I would also like to think if it grows out of the ground and is less than say 3-5 acre plot it is bait...because given the right deer population and time of year, an acre of foilage wont last long as primary source of food. As for the comment made by another user people who doesnt have land is against fod plots...not true I have several hundred acres to hunt. I have food plots, due to the fact they are legal...but still in my mind they are no different than having a broadcast feeder with other suppliments. Millet, corn, etc


:crazy:
 
Seems to me the disease factor is null and void...here is why...

It is illegal to hunt over bait, feeders, food, etc. All of which (from what I am understanding) increase the risk of disease spread (this used as PART of why they make rules for not hunting over bait).

However a person could feed deer and other wildlife all year long in TN as long as all of it is removed 10 days before hunting takes place. So what is the difference in feeding (baiting) the last few months when they have been fed all year anyway?

I thought that the main reasons for not allowing baiting stemed from the "fair chase" mentality and food plots were the loop hole in the law because it would be too hard to define agricultural practices when one man is hunting over a field he planted for hunting and another man is hunting over a field planted by a farmer...what if the hunter over the "food plot" was the farmer? or is a farmer?
 
Stalker,

You are correct that mosr baiting laws in the past have involved the issue of "fair chase." However, you will see more and more states passing no baiting or feeding laws over health concerns in the near future. With nasty new contagious diseases popping up, state agencies are growing rightfully concerned about disease spread issues.
 
BSK said:
Stalker,

You are correct that mosr baiting laws in the past have involved the issue of "fair chase." However, you will see more and more states passing no baiting or feeding laws over health concerns in the near future. With nasty new contagious diseases popping up, state agencies are growing rightfully concerned about disease spread issues.

So, how do you think the future laws will view a person who has feeders filled with corn from January (after season ends) thru 3 weeks from bow season and has 1 acre sized food plots (2 on 120 acres) and six large mieral lick locations? Who manages the land, clearing brush, mowing, feeding, seeding, uses trail cams to verify progress, and works the land every couple weeks or so all year. This is what I do. I ensure that I am following the laws on baiting and if my feeders are not empty 15 days out from bow season I remove them completely?
 
Stalker said:
BSK said:
Stalker,

You are correct that mosr baiting laws in the past have involved the issue of "fair chase." However, you will see more and more states passing no baiting or feeding laws over health concerns in the near future. With nasty new contagious diseases popping up, state agencies are growing rightfully concerned about disease spread issues.

So, how do you think the future laws will view a person who has feeders filled with corn from January (after season ends) thru 3 weeks from bow season and has 1 acre sized food plots (2 on 120 acres) and six large mieral lick locations? Who manages the land, clearing brush, mowing, feeding, seeding, uses trail cams to verify progress, and works the land every couple weeks or so all year. This is what I do. I ensure that I am following the laws on baiting and if my feeders are not empty 15 days out from bow season I remove them completely?

They will simply pass no feeding and no baiting laws. Basically, grow it out of the ground, OK. Provide it out of a feeder, illegal.
 
I thought that the main reasons for not allowing baiting stemed from the "fair chase" mentality
Boone & Crockett Regulations clearly classify bait as �fair chase�. And, Pope & Young doesn�t reject it either.

Again, diseases can and will spread naturally, but why would we want to increase those risks? In addition, the artifical feeding of wildlife may be causing major changes in wildlife utilization of the habitat and causing all sorts of other problems. And there is the problems associated with molds and diseases that grow on the feed. Some of the byproducts of those molds are very nasty and can be deadly to wildlife.
Why then do you suppose QDMA has articles in support of supplemental feeding and/or baiting with salt/minerals, etc?

They will simply pass no feeding and no baiting laws. Basically, grow it out of the ground, OK. Provide it out of a feeder, illegal.
Again, if the idea is to prevent disease, why give food-plotters a free pass to concentrate deer? Why not do something like regulate SIZE of plot too, the same way bait pile size is sometimes regulated?

I don�t know, but I read that report and man it just seems like it�s difficult to draw any real conclusions. I mean, first of all baiting and supplemental feeding are lumped together, which seems to me to give baiting a bad rap by association.

And then the bad things about feeding appear to be more linked to overpopulation than feeding itself. Sure �feeding� could facilitate disease transmission, but isn�t high deer density a bigger issue?

For example, in the traditional deer hunting destination of northcentral PA, the overwinter density is often down into the single digits nowadays (based on infrared counts). Can those numbers really result in �dangerous concentrations� of deer around bait sites?

Also interesting to me was that the success rates of hunting over bait vs. without were conflicting. But meanwhile �sharpshooter� deer reduction services and Game Commission deer studies always use bait.
 
Boone & Crockett Regulations clearly classify bait as �fair chase�. And, Pope & Young doesn�t reject it either.

I'm really not interested in what B&C or P&Y have to say. However, I'm very interested in what the non-hunting public thinks, and they--no matter what study you look at--overwhelmingky dislike bait and believe it is unfair. The non-hunting public will decide our future (only 5% of the U.S. population hunts).


Why then do you suppose QDMA has articles in support of supplemental feeding and/or baiting with salt/minerals, etc?

Because in some situations, like the near desert environment of west and south TX, supplemental feeding is necessary to sustain a viable deer population. The carrying capacity of these environments fluctuates so drastically from year to year depending on rainfall. Other situations exist where supplemental feeding is the only way to produce a truly healthy deer population (Limited Potential [LP] habitat).

However, that said, I'm deeply opposed to any supplemental feeding unless absolutely necessary.

So far, disease problems have not been linked to salt licks. But the potential is there for CWD transmission at salt licks (but not other diseases due to the high saline content of the lick, which will kill all living organisms).


Again, if the idea is to prevent disease, why give food-plotters a free pass to concentrate deer? Why not do something like regulate SIZE of plot too, the same way bait pile size is sometimes regulated?

Because there is a huge difference in the way deer feed in a small plot than the way they feed at a feeder or bait pile. In a small food plot they are not placing their mouths directly into the same spot, while at a feeder or bait pile, every mouth is placed into the same location in rapid succession.


I don�t know, but I read that report and man it just seems like it�s difficult to draw any real conclusions.

Are you serious? I feel that report is about as damning as it can get concerning supplemental feeding and baiting. Different perspective I guess.


I mean, first of all baiting and supplemental feeding are lumped together, which seems to me to give baiting a bad rap by association.

Which it should. They are equally as dangerous.


And then the bad things about feeding appear to be more linked to overpopulation than feeding itself. Sure �feeding� could facilitate disease transmission, but isn�t high deer density a bigger issue?

Absolutely. It isn't just a disease issue. It is also a "misuse" issue. Many who supplementally feed do so for the wrong reasons and use poor judgement about the effect of the supplemental feeding. They do not recongnize the signs of the damage they are doing through increased population and encouraging that increased population to concetrate their feeding near and at the feeders.

Supplemental feeding and baiting are complex, multifaceted issues. But the scientific concensus is they are both bad, for various reasons. I would avoid them both. Outside of TX, I have never recommended supplemental feeding to a client. In fact, I try my best to discourage any feeding at all other than habitat improvements.
 

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