Arrowhead question

[Tenntrapper]

Probably a strange question.

My grandfather was HUGE into hunting arrowheads, probably more so than I should go into here. I posted a while back about, as a teen, helping him carry 5 gallon buckets full of points to bury in his garden...bunches of them.
At some point, probably in the 1960s, he got into making frames to display them in. First question, does being in a frame detract from their desirability?
Sometime in the 80s, he found a guy at the Crossville flea market that traded artifacts. Papaw started trading tobacco cans full of "broken" "rough" points for these large pieces that the man had. The man claimed the were from "out west". Papaw assumed they were fakes, but still liked them, and since he was trading his "junk", he didn't figure he was out anything.
In the late 90's, papaw's health was going down fast. A family member was doing some selling at their local flea market. Papaw threw together a bunch of frames, that included these large pieces, for the family member to sell...to help them out. Second question, does these large pieces (possibly fake) take away from the rest of the authentic pieces in the frames? I remember in the 80s, the guy selling the large pieces had them priced at over 100.00 each. (Papaw got 100.00 per can credit towards the purchase/trade).
Most of these frames were sold. However in '06, when our house burned, (I lost all the frames I had), the family member gave me a few of the ones still around.
Papaw passed in 2000. My mother passed in late '06, and left some that she had, to me. Some of the frames were made from wood that papaw sourced from the old "one room school house", when it was torn down. Of course, I don't know which ones, or if I even have any of them.
My third question is the hardest to ask. I've got one whole wall in our bedroom, covered with these frames. I still have some with nowhere to display them. I have no family that's the least bit interested in them. What do I do with them? The ones on my wall are some that papaw made prior to the flea market thing...some he made in the 60 and 70s. I don't want to sell them..but I have considered giving them away, to someone who appreciates them. Papaw done it all the time. He loved to share...his face would light right up, when giving someone one of his frames.
What do I do? I would hate for them to fall into the hands of someone who only seen a monetary value...it wasn't what papaw would have wanted.

I know this was long winded, but I've been pondering this for years...it's time to ask for help.

 

[Teacher]

When my father was a young boy farming with his family in the 1930's he picked up tons of arrowheads and never thought another thing about them. Some of the unusual ones he hung onto and later put them up just to keep them as mementos of his early days. I grew up seeing these occasionally and they fascinated me to the point that I became addicted to searching for points in all the fields near us. When my father passed several years ago, I went through his things he had put up and found several points from his earlier days. It was a surprise to see a couple of fluted Clovis points in there among some of the points he had saved as a child. I have no idea just where he found them, but I am at least glad he kept them as he really had no interest in them. He often told stories of picking a point up and striking it against another point to watch sparks fly from the flint. I just wonder how many of those he struck together were fluted points and were broken as he hit them together. Back when he was a child, producing food to survive on was far more important than picking up an Indian Rock as he used to call them. Alot of points now days wind up in museums and are enjoyed by folks who would never have an opportunty to see them. Might want to consider this option, or either sell to a private collector and save for a rainy day fund for your family. Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[Tenntrapper]

When my father was a young boy farming with his family in the 1930's he picked up tons of arrowheads and never thought another thing about them. Some of the unusual ones he hung onto and later put them up just to keep them as mementos of his early days. I grew up seeing these occasionally and they fascinated me to the point that I became addicted to searching for points in all the fields near us. When my father passed several years ago, I went through his things he had put up and found several points from his earlier days. It was a surprise to see a couple of fluted Clovis points in there among some of the points he had saved as a child. I have no idea just where he found them, but I am at least glad he kept them as he really had no interest in them. He often told stories of picking a point up and striking it against another point to watch sparks fly from the flint. I just wonder how many of those he struck together were fluted points and were broken as he hit them together. Back when he was a child, producing food to survive on was far more important than picking up an Indian Rock as he used to call them. Alot of points now days wind up in museums and are enjoyed by folks who would never have an opportunty to see them. Might want to consider this option, or either sell to a private collector and save for a rainy day fund for your family. Just my $0.02 worth.

Thank you for the suggestion. When papaw retired from UT Knoxville, he had one of the largest collections in the state. He donated most of it to UT, possibly ended up in the Appalachian museum. He moved to Florida for a couple years, then back to his birthplace... Pikeville, TN. Before he got sick, the amount of stuff he had was unreal. Frames covered probably 75 percent of all wall space. They were stacked and stored under every bed..as many as would fit. Stacks of frames in every corner. Big display things on walls with all kinds of artifacts in them. The only thing he didn't keep, was bones. He always returned them to the ground.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I totally understand that monetary gain isn't your goal...and I respect that..but it might be wise to understand exactly what you have before proceeding. (And you may already have?) I only say this because if you have any Clovis points or any other rare points, your collection could have a significant value....and even if you don't have any interest in the money....you could donate the funds to your favorite charity....and the museum suggestion is great....or if you knew a history teacher who had interest in displaying them in the classroom....museum or classroom would be nice so more people could see and enjoy them....and maybe they could post a plaque with your Grandfather's name....sounds like you have an amazing collection....good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Tenntrapper]

I totally understand that monetary gain isn't your goal...and I respect that..but it might be wise to understand exactly what you have before proceeding. (And you may already have?) I only say this because if you have any Clovis points or any other rare points, your collection could have a significant value....and even if you don't have any interest in the money....you could donate the funds to your favorite charity....and the museum suggestion is great....or if you knew a history teacher who had interest in displaying them in the classroom....museum or classroom would be nice so more people could see and enjoy them....and maybe they could post a plaque with your Grandfather's name....sounds like you have an amazing collection....good luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for the info. My collection isn't all that. As I said, most of what I have is stuff he threw together for flea market sale. I do have a couple older frames that my mother left me. As to what the different pieces are, I have no idea. Papaw knew what they were, but I don't. I wouldn't know a Clovis point from a 12g shotshell. I'm sure papaw wouldn't have included anything of great value in the frames meant to be sold. Probably 99 percent of his collection is gone now...ruthless family when someone passes...we all know what I'm talking about.

I did read on here recently, someone talking about the little "triangle" bird points (papaw used to call them), about how much they liked those. Papaw liked them to. I have at least one frame of nothing but those. Thought about karma-ing it off to him. But, again, I don't want it to be to someone that just parts it out, and sales it off....I could do that. I want to find someone who appreciates them...if that makes sense.

 

[bigjohn]

Some years ago I ate slept and breathed artifacts but not so much now. If you're looking to sell them to someone who enjoys them then get in touch with Kevin Pipes, he owns Smokey Mountain Knife Works.

 

[david k.]

My grand-dad did the same thing! He had thousands of pieces and my grandmother donated most of it after he died....we still have a quite a few and I posted pics of what my mom has in this thread a few years ago:

My Grandfather's Collection

My grandfather passed away about 20 years ago but collecting had been his hobby for most of his adult life. He would make shadowboxes to display arrowheads and spear points and gave them away as gifts in many cases. My grandmother donated about 80-90% of his collection to a museum but a few...

www.tndeer.com

 

[DoubleRidge]

Thanks for the info. My collection isn't all that. As I said, most of what I have is stuff he threw together for flea market sale. I do have a couple older frames that my mother left me. As to what the different pieces are, I have no idea. Papaw knew what they were, but I don't. I wouldn't know a Clovis point from a 12g shotshell. I'm sure papaw wouldn't have included anything of great value in the frames meant to be sold. Probably 99 percent of his collection is gone now...ruthless family when someone passes...we all know what I'm talking about.

I did read on here recently, someone talking about the little "triangle" bird points (papaw used to call them), about how much they liked those. Papaw liked them to. I have at least one frame of nothing but those. Thought about karma-ing it off to him. But, again, I don't want it to be to someone that just parts it out, and sales it off....I could do that. I want to find someone who appreciates them...if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense that you want someone to have them that appreciates them..... verses someone who will bust up the collection to sell piece by piece.....I can totally respect and understand that.... hopefully the right person comes along that has an interest in keeping the collection together. (And I agree....the little bird points are cool)

 

[DoubleRidge]

My grand-dad did the same thing! He had thousands of pieces and my grandmother donated most of it after he died....we still have a quite a few and I posted pics of what my mom has in this thread a few years ago:

My Grandfather's Collection

My grandfather passed away about 20 years ago but collecting had been his hobby for most of his adult life. He would make shadowboxes to display arrowheads and spear points and gave them away as gifts in many cases. My grandmother donated about 80-90% of his collection to a museum but a few...

www.tndeer.com

Very nice! Thanks for sharing!

 

[david k.]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome....he had a lot of cool pieces but as I've gotten older, I've become a little more conflicted about it.

I'm not even sure what my grand-dad did is even legal anymore (i.e. I know he did a lot of digging on burial mounds 50 years ago) but I wouldn't want someone to dig up my great-great-grandparents...know what I mean?

 

[Tenntrapper]

You're welcome....he had a lot of cool pieces but as I've gotten older, I've become a little more conflicted about it.

I'm not even sure what my grand-dad did is even legal anymore (i.e. I know he did a lot of digging on burial mounds 50 years ago) but I wouldn't want someone to dig up my great-great-grandparents...know what I mean?

I for sure can relate to that. To my knowledge, we never dug "into" a burial mound, but it was sometimes obvious that a farmer had plowed across one. Often, many times over the years.
It was mentioned above about Kevin Pipes, and SMKW. It's my understanding that his business is built on top of one. I vaguely remember when it was built, and all the news about it. It was uncovered during the excavation. I just assumed that where the artifacts in the store came from...at least partly.

 

[DoubleRidge]

You're welcome....he had a lot of cool pieces but as I've gotten older, I've become a little more conflicted about it.

I'm not even sure what my grand-dad did is even legal anymore (i.e. I know he did a lot of digging on burial mounds 50 years ago) but I wouldn't want someone to dig up my great-great-grandparents...know what I mean?

Yeah....I totally understand what your saying.....I never dug any graves....years ago we hunted agriculture fields back when farmers plowed and disked bottom land.....now with the no-till drill method of farming it's harder to find spots to hunt.

 

[Carlos]

My Son loves searching for artifacts. (We've never found any, but had lots of good times looking.)

If you'd ship some to me, I could hide them under a bluff ahead of time, and let 'discover' them. He'd always remember that, and it wouldn't take much to WOW him.
Just in case you're interested.
Thanks!!

 

[Wiley]

Be careful about donating to a museum and research accordingly. I have read of large collections being donated, a few pieces being displayed and the rest disappeared. I know that museums rotate their displays but it's unforgivable for artifacts to disappear from their "storage".

 

[Crow Terminator]

Anything donated to a museum is seldom displayed. It often gets sold at auction to make way for museum remodels and such. Sometimes it gets sold privately and the money for the collection is pocketed.

Indian artifacts have sky rocketed in value the last few years. If you don't believe me, go do some of the live auctions on Facebook or go to a show. I watch them all the time. Pinetrees are selling for $300+ each, those little triangles you mentioned are my favorite because they are true arrowheads and not darts/spears. If they aren't broken and are the small size, they are bringing $15 each average and if they are the larger varieties, about $20-25 each. I watched an auction last night where a Benton with COA went for $475. The reason is...they for sure aren't making any more real ones, and with very strict laws on searching for artifacts, it makes it almost illegal in the majority of states. It limits people to private land and most private land places don't plow any more so it makes finding them even more difficult. So all that is left are pieces from collections that get sold and traded around.

 

[First orda of biness]

Thank you for the suggestion. When papaw retired from UT Knoxville, he had one of the largest collections in the state. He donated most of it to UT, possibly ended up in the Appalachian museum. He moved to Florida for a couple years, then back to his birthplace... Pikeville, TN. Before he got sick, the amount of stuff he had was unreal. Frames covered probably 75 percent of all wall space. They were stacked and stored under every bed..as many as would fit. Stacks of frames in every corner. Big display things on walls with all kinds of artifacts in them. The only thing he didn't keep, was bones. He always returned them to the ground.

What about contacting the head of the archaeology dept at UT and maybe they could use them in class, museum, or know of a legitimate tribal contact that could help.

 

[Lost Lake]

Keep the ones you want, and as for the others, I'd consider going to an artifact show and selling them. Covid has things shut down in a lot of places, and shows haven't been spared either. If you can find a collector in your area who is knowledgeable, he or she might be able to help you sort through them to see what you should take to shows.

A lot of collectors have taken to selling their "brokes" for a few dollars apiece, as they have some value as study pieces.

"Grey Ghosts", which were large modern made pieces usually made from Texas chert, made their way into a lot of collections years ago. One man made most of them and they are pretty easy to spot for a trained eye.

Above all, get your collection appraised by someone you trust beforehand. Museums have dusty catacombs full of nice collections that will never see the light of day, and disappear. I'd give them to a stranger before I'd send them off to a museum. JMO.

 

[paleohunter]

Probably a strange question.

My grandfather was HUGE into hunting arrowheads, probably more so than I should go into here. I posted a while back about, as a teen, helping him carry 5 gallon buckets full of points to bury in his garden...bunches of them.
At some point, probably in the 1960s, he got into making frames to display them in. First question, does being in a frame detract from their desirability?
Sometime in the 80s, he found a guy at the Crossville flea market that traded artifacts. Papaw started trading tobacco cans full of "broken" "rough" points for these large pieces that the man had. The man claimed the were from "out west". Papaw assumed they were fakes, but still liked them, and since he was trading his "junk", he didn't figure he was out anything.
In the late 90's, papaw's health was going down fast. A family member was doing some selling at their local flea market. Papaw threw together a bunch of frames, that included these large pieces, for the family member to sell...to help them out. Second question, does these large pieces (possibly fake) take away from the rest of the authentic pieces in the frames? I remember in the 80s, the guy selling the large pieces had them priced at over 100.00 each. (Papaw got 100.00 per can credit towards the purchase/trade).
Most of these frames were sold. However in '06, when our house burned, (I lost all the frames I had), the family member gave me a few of the ones still around.
Papaw passed in 2000. My mother passed in late '06, and left some that she had, to me. Some of the frames were made from wood that papaw sourced from the old "one room school house", when it was torn down. Of course, I don't know which ones, or if I even have any of them.
My third question is the hardest to ask. I've got one whole wall in our bedroom, covered with these frames. I still have some with nowhere to display them. I have no family that's the least bit interested in them. What do I do with them? The ones on my wall are some that papaw made prior to the flea market thing...some he made in the 60 and 70s. I don't want to sell them..but I have considered giving them away, to someone who appreciates them. Papaw done it all the time. He loved to share...his face would light right up, when giving someone one of his frames.
What do I do? I would hate for them to fall into the hands of someone who only seen a monetary value...it wasn't what papaw would have wanted.

I know this was long winded, but I've been pondering this for years...it's time to ask for help.

If you are planning on giving the points away, may I suggest contacting your local boy scout troop. They would enjoy the artifacts and also learn about their typology. Points are usually defined by the style and flaking methods. These factors determine the age category of the point. Good luck and think about keeping a few just to honor the memory of your grandfather.

 

[Wiley]

If you have FB or know somebody that does there are a few artifact pages on there. The only one that I'm on has 2 or 3 guys that seem down to earth and really know the TN/MS/AL triangle as far as what types of flint artifacts exist, where they are generally found and other "local" info on such things. You might contact them and learn what you have and make a couple of new friends.....

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