Another school shooting

TheLBLman

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The range from the officer who "could" have shot the murderer was 148 yds.
Does this distance change anyone's perspectives?

Have to also consider at that moment, no one in the area had been injured, so basically an officer just observed a guy carrying a gun in the distance?

Seriously, I would have had concerns it "could" have been a good guy with a gun, and can see why the officer might have questioned whether he should immediately start firing upon the guy he saw with a gun.

By no means am I saying this officer shouldn't have shot, as we now know in retrospect why he should have. Just saying I can understand why he might have had legitimate reasoning to not immediately start firing at a guy in the distance possessing a gun.

Also, there was another office present who simply failed to even see the murderer,
so should he also be burned at the stake for his failures?

 
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Bambi Buster

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Omega

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The range from the officer who "could" have shot the murderer was 148 yds.
Does this distance change anyone's perspectives?

Have to also consider at that moment, no one in the area had been injured, so basically an officer just observed a guy carrying a gun in the distance?

Seriously, I would have had concerns it "could" have been a good guy with a gun, and can see why the officer might have questioned whether he should immediately start firing upon the guy he saw with a gun.

By no means am I saying this officer shouldn't have shot, as we now know in retrospect why he should have. Just saying I can understand why he might have had legitimate reasoning to not immediately start firing at a guy in the distance possessing a gun.

Also, there was another office present who simply failed to even see the murderer,
so should he also be burned at the stake for his failures?

Thanks for the link. This changes my perspective a little, but in the end, I do not know enough about what the cop knew, before he didn't have a shot. Such as, were shots already fired (we know, but did he), and if the door was unlocked, again, we know but did he. We know that the teacher shut the door, and that it should have locked, if he thought the same then I could see hesitating to shoot, thinking more time was available. Each incident has many links in the situation chain that if any one would have broken it would not have happened. As outside spectators, it is easy to say this or that should have happened, but we were not there, and don't know enough to make those kind of judgements. I wish I could say we will get all the facts, but history shows that will probably not be the case, so we will probably be discussing this with conspiracies and half truths to guide our positions from now to eternity.
 

FLTENNHUNTER1

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Range was 150 yds, no optics?

Was the officer even aware of ANYTHING other than he saw a guy with a gun, IN THE DISTANCE? 1.45 football fields away?


For all this officer knew in that split second,
he might have been wondering if it was a good guy with a gun?

Just saying, we're all Monday morning quarterbacking,
after understanding what didn't happen.
And this was just one of at least 3 things that "could" have ended it before it started.

This is an example why we should have legal trials instead of mobs burning people at the stake?
From the article you posted:

"In this instance, the UPD officer would have heard gunshots and/or reports of gunshots and observed an individual approaching the school building armed with a rifle. A reasonable officer would conclude in this case, based upon the totality of the circumstances, that use of deadly force was warranted,"

According to the article, he was waiting for "permission to shoot from his supervisor."

No arm chair quarterbacking. Just making comments on the information we have been provided whether it is accurate or not. If accurate, this was ANOTHER epic failure of law enforcement to protect innocent children.

I don't need optics to shoot a man sized target with iron sights at 148 yards. The LEO shouldn't either.
 

peytoncreekhunter

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From the article you posted:

"In this instance, the UPD officer would have heard gunshots and/or reports of gunshots and observed an individual approaching the school building armed with a rifle. A reasonable officer would conclude in this case, based upon the totality of the circumstances, that use of deadly force was warranted,"

According to the article, he was waiting for "permission to shoot from his supervisor."

No arm chair quarterbacking. Just making comments on the information we have been provided whether it is accurate or not. If accurate, this was ANOTHER epic failure of law enforcement to protect innocent children.

I don't need optics to shoot a man sized target with iron sights at 148 yards. The LEO shouldn't either.

Shooting a man sized target at 148 yrds with or without optics under no pressure is a lot different than under the pressure of an incident like that. Knowing every bullet you fire has a lawyer and lawsuit attached. And now days possibly an arrest warrant for you, even if you have the best of intentions. And I get it, officers need to train more and be great shots but people miss and police officers are just regular people too.
 

FLTENNHUNTER1

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Shooting a man sized target at 148 yrds with or without optics under no pressure is a lot different than under the pressure of an incident like that. Knowing every bullet you fire has a lawyer and lawsuit attached. And now days possibly an arrest warrant for you, even if you have the best of intentions. And I get it, officers need to train more and be great shots but people miss and police officers are just regular people too.
He should have took the shot. Period end of story.
 

MUP

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150 yards is a tough shot with optics on a moving target for certain, but what optics did he have I wonder? Red dot for close up engagement? 2X maybe? a 10X would have been good I believe, but still, too many variables to make that call for me on the sideline. That's why I'm not an LEO.
 

peytoncreekhunter

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Look at the case here in Nashville where an officer chasing a subject with a gun fired and killed him and is now sitting in prison. And that subject had even turned and pointed the gun at the officer but due to today's society he was vilified. Now what if that officer had not shot him and that subject went on down the street shot two or three people to carjack their car and fled. Then he would have been vilified for not shooting him.

The officers today are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
 

270MONTS

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Look at the case here in Nashville where an officer chasing a subject with a gun fired and killed him and is now sitting in prison. And that subject had even turned and pointed the gun at the officer but due to today's society he was vilified. Now what if that officer had not shot him and that subject went on down the street shot two or three people to carjack their car and fled. Then he would have been vilified for not shooting him.

The officers today are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
That’s unbelievable. People should be strung up for that happening to police officers
 

Omega

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150 yards is a tough shot with optics on a moving target for certain, but what optics did he have I wonder? Red dot for close up engagement? 2X maybe? a 10X would have been good I believe, but still, too many variables to make that call for me on the sideline. That's why I'm not an LEO.
The range is insignificant if you practice, in the military we shoot to 300 meters, with irons or red dot. That LEO unit practiced to 100 yards I believe, so 150-200 should have been easy enough due to the .223 not dropping too much. But, as I noted before, we have the luxury of hindsight, so unless he knew certain things ahead of time, it's difficult for me to lay the blame on him for his wanting permission. The left has hamstrung and weakened our police force(s) for years, so should we be surprised when they have to think about the consequences even if they believe they are justified in using lethal force? Even our military was affected, there were a few instances where our soldiers were investigated, and charged, for an action that should have been covered under ROW. Yea, I know we have some bad actors out there, and we must make sure they uphold their oaths and act in accordance with the regulations or laws that govern their actions, but you have to admit that we have some very unscrupulous politicians that have turned our justice system on its ear.
 

peytoncreekhunter

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Has anyone other than me had what they thought was a chip shot on a deer with a rifle and ended up missing the deer for some reason? So without knowing what that officer was seeing I just can't second guess his decision not to shoot. Was there a good backstop of a building with block to stop the bullet, was there some windows there on that wall? If that bullet went through a window and hit someone, he's liable for every round he fires. Maybe he wasn't certain he could hit a moving target at that range. I don't know. I heard the report that he was waiting for permission to fire which I find that hard to believe, but maybe that's what happened, not being there I have no idea.
 

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