3 vs 4 year olds and older

[Boll Weevil]

duckriver,

I love to hunt...I mean really love it. But at some point, my desire to spend time in the woods chasing an old deer can actually work to my disadvantage. I stumbled onto this recognition in college and my first few years out of school quite by mistake.

Time in the outdoors during my college years was downright rare compared to when I was younger and had all the time in the world to walk out the back door, scout, hunt, build / move stands, and glass fields. I had to pick my time to be home or ask for time off well in advance vs. being able to go any time (all the time actually). Circumstances forced me to be a little more time-selective.

It was during those years that I started seeing big/old deer with far more regularity (and killing a few) and it really got me thinking. I was hunting the same ground, same stands, same food sources, etc but is it possible I was OVERhunting in the past?

At that point, the only thing that had really changed when I examined it all was that I had far less time to hunt. Old deer can feel this. They smell, hear, see, and quite frankly sense this. It can be hard for us hunters to stay out of a particular stand, but what I've found is if I hunt it at the wrong time my odds go down not up.

 

[BSK]

I agree, I guess I was thinking about inches of antler growth from 3-4 rather than percentage. At this age, I always understood their bodies were fully developed so their nutrition could go toward antler growth. But, I do agree with your percentages. What percentage of their best rack, does a 4.5 year old buck have in Tenn? Also, what are they at various ages?

At 4 1/2, most data sets suggest a Southeastern buck is at 90% of his maximum antler size.

The averages I have, from the Western Highland Rim area of TN, are (and I post a range because there is distinct difference between years following a good and bad acorn crop):

1 1/2: 40-45
2 1/2: 80-85 (40 inch increase, 100% increase)
3 1/2: 105-110 (25 inch increase, 30% increase)
4 1/2: 120-125 (15 inch increase, around 15% increase)

I don't have enough 5 1/2+ buck data to get a valid average.

And for those who think those numbers are low, my data compares very, very closely to the same data collected on the famous King and Faith ranches in TX:

 

[BSK]

I'm always tickled to get a 3 year old, and being a numbers guy our 3 year olds average 123" over the last few years.

Just remember that hunters "cherry pick" the top-end antlers of each age-class. I have no doubt that the average HARVESTED 3 1/2 on your place is 123. But in most of TN, 3 1/2 year-old bucks don't AVERAGE that high. But I often find that harvested bucks of a specific age run 10-15 inches larger than that age-class averages. This is just the natural outcome of hunters deciding to shoot for the larger antlered bucks, often not even realizing some smaller-antlered bucks are older to mature in age.

 

[duckriver]

I'm always tickled to get a 3 year old, and being a numbers guy our 3 year olds average 123" over the last few years.

Just remember that hunters "cherry pick" the top-end antlers of each age-class. I have no doubt that the average HARVESTED 3 1/2 on your place is 123. But in most of TN, 3 1/2 year-old bucks don't AVERAGE that high. But I often find that harvested bucks of a specific age run 10-15 inches larger than that age-class averages. This is just the natural outcome of hunters deciding to shoot for the larger antlered bucks, often not even realizing some smaller-antlered bucks are older to mature in age.

I believe this 100 percent. We have passed 3 year olds that "just didn't quite have it".

 

[duckriver]

Boll weevil

I'm in the same boat as you. Im blessed enough to get to hunt on average 40 days per year. I can see how they adjust their schedule to us. I'm going to completely change my game plan to quality over quantity. In stead of having all the stands where we see the most deer to moving some to where we may not hardly see any but when we do hopefully it will be a shooter

 

[deerhunter10]

the one reason I pass pretty much every 3 year old I see is because as of now I love the challenge. most of the time the rack doesn't jump that much he may add some mass maybe a few inches but a 3 year old compared to a 4 year old and older are just to me a blast to hunt very frustrating hunting but very very rewarding to me to finally get everything to come together and to kill that deer. the old deer reliaze every detail very few people consistently luck up and kill a mature deer every year it takes work and it is a blast for me. its a year round deal for us because there is always something to do. and in Tennessee with all the ridges and hollers it is hard hunting. but it is a blast.

 

[BSK]

the one reason I pass pretty much every 3 year old I see is because as of now I love the challenge. most of the time the rack doesn't jump that much he may add some mass maybe a few inches but a 3 year old compared to a 4 year old and older are just to me a blast to hunt very frustrating hunting but very very rewarding to me to finally get everything to come together and to kill that deer. the old deer reliaze every detail very few people consistently luck up and kill a mature deer every year it takes work and it is a blast for me. its a year round deal for us because there is always something to do. and in Tennessee with all the ridges and hollers it is hard hunting. but it is a blast.

deerhunter10,

I think you're the type of mature buck hunter that will stick with it over time. I've found there are two primary types of consistently successful mature buck hunters: those who do it as a personal challenge--to prove to themselves they can do it--and those who pursue mature bucks because they love the "chess match." Those who love the game--the pursuit--never tire of that game, and stick with it for most of their life. However, those who do it for the personal challenge, once they have been successful long enough to prove to themselves their successes aren't a fluke, tire of extreme efforts involved and often shift their hunting back towards "recreation"--hunting for fun.

I think the difference is, those who do it for a challenge, do all the hard work because that is what they have to do to be successful, but eventually tire of it (as well as realize "the work" has taken the fun out of hunting). Those who do it because they love the pursuit, love and enjoy the work involved, and never tire of it because the work is part of the fun.

 

[duckriver]

Bsk

That's why I'm changing my plan. I truly love deer hunting. But I'm ready to make it more challenging. This up coming season will be the 20th year hunting these places and I'm ready to change it up

 

[BSK]

Bsk

That's why I'm changing my plan. I truly love deer hunting. But I'm ready to make it more challenging. This up coming season will be the 20th year hunting these places and I'm ready to change it up

Works for me! Get ready for a lot of work and many frustrations, but if you truly love "the game," you'll love being a mature buck hunter.

 

[fairchaser]

I agree, I guess I was thinking about inches of antler growth from 3-4 rather than percentage. At this age, I always understood their bodies were fully developed so their nutrition could go toward antler growth. But, I do agree with your percentages. What percentage of their best rack, does a 4.5 year old buck have in Tenn? Also, what are they at various ages?

At 4 1/2, most data sets suggest a Southeastern buck is at 90% of his maximum antler size.

The averages I have, from the Western Highland Rim area of TN, are (and I post a range because there is distinct difference between years following a good and bad acorn crop):

1 1/2: 40-45
2 1/2: 80-85 (40 inch increase, 100% increase)
3 1/2: 105-110 (25 inch increase, 30% increase)
4 1/2: 120-125 (15 inch increase, around 15% increase)

I don't have enough 5 1/2+ buck data to get a valid average.

And for those who think those numbers are low, my data compares very, very closely to the same data collected on the famous King and Faith ranches in TX:

Great info BSK. Thanks. We have been told that Ames Plantation bucks average higher gross scores per age class than Texas bucks. I don't recall the exact numbers so I don't want to mistate but it was significant. Is there a material difference between Humphreys/Hickmond vs Fayette/Hardeman county bucks?

 

[BSK]

Great info BSK. Thanks. We have been told that Ames Plantation bucks average higher gross scores per age class than Texas bucks. I don't recall the exact numbers so I don't want to mistate but it was significant. Is there a material difference between Humphreys/Hickmond vs Fayette/Hardeman county bucks?

Uh oh, this is where I got myself in trouble with the QDMA the last time antler growth on Ames was discussed on this site (I got some nasty emails from them).

I don't remember the numbers quoted the last time (given at a presentation to hunters at Ames), but I do remember my thoughts when I read the numbers. And I'll try to post my thoughts in my usual careful, respectful manner: "ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS!"

Now I'm not saying antler growth per age-class ISN'T different at Ames than the numbers I posted above. I'm sure it is a little better. Antler growth per age-class is definitely better in Williamson County--one of the best antler growing regions of TN--than the numbers I posted. But not a lot better. Perhaps 5-10 inches better max. Ames would be in between the two. But if a remember correctly, the numbers being thrown around about Ames were close to what I see from the best trophy managed properties in IL. Ames equaling that? Ludicrous...

 

[fairchaser]

Great info BSK. Thanks. We have been told that Ames Plantation bucks average higher gross scores per age class than Texas bucks. I don't recall the exact numbers so I don't want to mistate but it was significant. Is there a material difference between Humphreys/Hickmond vs Fayette/Hardeman county bucks?

Uh oh, this is where I got myself in trouble with the QDMA the last time antler growth on Ames was discussed on this site (I got some nasty emails from them).

I don't remember the numbers quoted the last time (given at a presentation to hunters at Ames), but I do remember my thoughts when I read the numbers. And I'll try to post my thoughts in my usual careful, respectful manner: "ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS!"

Now I'm not saying antler growth per age-class ISN'T different at Ames than the numbers I posted above. I'm sure it is a little better. Antler growth per age-class is definitely better in Williamson County--one of the best antler growing regions of TN--than the numbers I posted. But not a lot better. Perhaps 5-10 inches better max. Ames would be in between the two. But if a remember correctly, the numbers being thrown around about Ames were close to what I see from the best trophy managed properties in IL. Ames equaling that? Ludicrous...

I agree their antler numbers seemed more than I expected and they were questioned on it at the time. Of course they have the stats and I only have anecdotal evidence I figured due to our soils, we would have slightly bigger antlers per age class than the middle of the state. Thanks for the info.

 

[BSK]

I agree their antler numbers seemed more than I expected and they were questioned on it at the time. Of course they have the stats...

I would love to see their "stats" and how they collected them.

I figured due to our soils, we would have slightly bigger antlers per age class than the middle of the state.

No, Ames is not better than the Nashville Basin (Williamson and southern Davidson counties), but better than the hill country surrounding the Nashville basin (Highland Rim).

 

[deerhunter10]

the one reason I pass pretty much every 3 year old I see is because as of now I love the challenge. most of the time the rack doesn't jump that much he may add some mass maybe a few inches but a 3 year old compared to a 4 year old and older are just to me a blast to hunt very frustrating hunting but very very rewarding to me to finally get everything to come together and to kill that deer. the old deer reliaze every detail very few people consistently luck up and kill a mature deer every year it takes work and it is a blast for me. its a year round deal for us because there is always something to do. and in Tennessee with all the ridges and hollers it is hard hunting. but it is a blast.

deerhunter10,

I think you're the type of mature buck hunter that will stick with it over time. I've found there are two primary types of consistently successful mature buck hunters: those who do it as a personal challenge--to prove to themselves they can do it--and those who pursue mature bucks because they love the "chess match." Those who love the game--the pursuit--never tire of that game, and stick with it for most of their life. However, those who do it for the personal challenge, once they have been successful long enough to prove to themselves their successes aren't a fluke, tire of extreme efforts involved and often shift their hunting back towards "recreation"--hunting for fun.

I think the difference is, those who do it for a challenge, do all the hard work because that is what they have to do to be successful, but eventually tire of it (as well as realize "the work" has taken the fun out of hunting). Those who do it because they love the pursuit, love and enjoy the work involved, and never tire of it because the work is part of the fun.

I plan on doing it for as long as possible. Truly enjoy the chess match not much better.