3 Bird Limit Next Year

[deerfever]

That is my point Doskil, everyone goes on about a two week later start date because they have listened to Dr. Chamberlain. A two week later start date puts us 4 weeks behind Georgia and Alabama( we are not that different than either state). We would also open behind Minnesota which borders Canada. Does any of that make sense? I think we open close to when we should but actually was willing to compromise on that. Now in my email to commission I did actually say a 3 bird limit, no Jakes, absolutely no hens , I actually said open a week later and no gobbler decoys or fans . As you can see I went further than the commission did. I also was making the point that one of the counties in the turkey study ( Giles)for low bird numbers is now in the top 5 in kills. Mega I appreciate you answering that question as you know a ton about turkeys and that is apparent to me. I guess my point on that was this county grew in turkey population with the current opening dates and limits in place. Which a lot of you say is not possible. I am anxious to hear what they say happened in the counties in the study , if it were limits and opening dates how has Giles and Lincoln excelled? I know poult production but again some say that can't happen with the limits and opening date we have. Also telling someone that disagrees with the two bird limit to hop in the vehicle and go to another state , is the same as a person for the 4 bird limit telling you to hop in the vehicle and go to a better county. When you say they should have listened to hunters , what about the ones that wanted to keep or raise the current limit because we set a state record this year? What if they had listened to them? No., I did not want to raise the limit, you seen what I turned in. My point is to me you have to hear both sides and realize not everyone turned in a two bird limit and two week later season. Again you see a lot of people saying two bird , two week delay on this website and as much as we all love this site ,You need to realize a ton of hunters with different opinions are not members of this site. I may end up changing my mind on the start date when they look at it and see how it affects turkey population in some counties the next two years . I am all about what is best for the turkeys and the study may prove that it is.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

How can Georgia birds be ahead of TN birds?

Do birds recognize geopolitical boundaries?

No, but they recognize seasonal differences in different latitudes. Same reason deer rut in October farther north but they rut in Jan/Feb in southern latitudes. Obviously there won't be a difference in birds living at the TN/GA border, but there will be a difference between birds in Sumner Co or Stuart Co TN and those in Peach Co. GA. So it is absolutely true that in general GA birds will breed and nest earlier than TN because they are farther south.

That is my point Doskil, everyone goes on about a two week later start date because they have listened to Dr. Chamberlain. A two week later start date puts us 4 weeks behind Georgia and Alabama( we are not that different than either state). We would also open behind Minnesota which borders Canada. Does any of that make sense? . . . I also was making the point that one of the counties in the turkey study (Giles) for low bird numbers is now in the top 5 in kills. . . . what about the ones that wanted to keep or raise the current limit because we set a state record this year? What if they had listened to them? No., I did not want to raise the limit, you seen what I turned in. My point is to me you have to hear both sides and realize not everyone turned in a two bird limit and two week later season. Again you see a lot of people saying two bird , two week delay on this website and as much as we all love this site ,You need to realize a ton of hunters with different opinions are not members of this site. I may end up changing my mind on the start date when they look at it and see how it affects turkey population in some counties the next two years . I am all about what is best for the turkeys and the study may prove that it is.

It's not just Dr. Chamberlain. And it's not just TN. It is 100% fact that overall turkey populations have been declining across much of the southeast over the past decade. Almost certainly there are multiple factors at play, but it's hard to dispute that (1) With changes in hunting tactics and advancements in technology people are more efficient at killing turkeys than we have ever been in human history, (2) current seasons in TN and other SE states open well before peak nesting - which means they open well before most hens are bred, and (3) we are seeing consistent declines in poult production and overall reproductive success. And I don't think we should just do what hunters want, although hunter opinion/input is important. I think we should do what leading biologists say is best for the resource. The Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (SEAFWA) unequivocally recommends timing seasons to coincide with peak nesting to ensure adequate breeding takes place before a big percentage of available gobblers are killed. TN has refused to do this except in the worst areas. Other states have done it or are looking to do it. Dr. Chamberlain has a lot of respect in GA and elsewhere, but he's not calling the shots. He just gives his opinion. GA has delayed seasons in some areas and I suspect they will do it statewide when season settings take place next year (they also set seasons on a 2 year cycle).

As for Giles County - as I understand it the huge population drop was in the southern-most portion of those 5 counties. It is something of a different issue that the slow steady decline that has been widespread in the state and southeast in general. The northern part of giles borders the turkey mecca of Maury county. So you could have a strong kill total for the county even if the badly affected southern part of the county is still turkeyless.

Overall turkey numbers are down and poult production is at or near an all-time low since reintroduction. I don't care what the total kill numbers are. This year is a good example. Kill total increased 30%. No one that knows anything about turkeys thinks the population is up 30%. If we keep producing fewer poults each spring (as we have for the past decade) we will have fewer turkeys. If we keep producing fewer poults each spring AND keep killing more turkeys the following year, we'll have even fewer turkeys even faster. That math is simple. There are some sound, science-based options that leading biologists believe will improve reproductive success. I just want us to use them. If that means I don't get to start in late March and I don't get to kill 3 or 4 in Tennessee - fine. As long as there is a healthy turkey population for my son to enjoy over the next few decades, I'll happily make whatever sacrifices are needed now.

 

[TheLBLman]

Well said, Southern Sportsman.

 

[deerfever]

Yes , Well said Southern sportsman! I am glad we agree on latitude and opening dates. Again we open two weeks later than Georgia and Alabama due to latitude. TN opens earlier than Minnesota and Kentucky due to latitude. I couldn't have said it better. Also we agree on harvest numbers, remember in 2018 when some people o here pointed out the harvest falling below 30,000 and it meant the demise of the turkey in TN? I am glad we weren't part of that crowd. I felt the drop was simply due to the bad weather the first few weekends of the season but I was laughed at. Then 2019 came and once again the harvest people pointed out a TWRA conspiracy theory because harvest was over 31,000 birds and they had predicted drops to 24,000 or less. 2020 hits 40,000 and a new state harvest record. It seems people only believe or point to harvest numbers when it fits their personal agenda. I am not selfish either as even though I am hearing and seeing more turkeys in 38 years of hunting in counties that most wouldn't hunt, I sent a recommendation to start a week later( even though we already start the first weekend in April )and reduce the limit to 3 . I also have a son that hunts turkey. If the TN turkey study proves Dr. Chamberlains theory correct than I am all in if indeed it helps with poult production and if a 2 bird limit is necessary, I will also go along with that but please if that happens bring back the bonus bird on special quota hunts!

 

[TheLBLman]

I sent a recommendation to start a week later( even though we already start the first weekend in April )!

Just a minor "clarification":

TN's turkey season opens on the Saturday CLOSEST to April 1st.
In "about" half the years, our turkey season will open in late March.

This is inconsistent with our other season opening dates
which are usually stated as say "the 2nd" or "the 3rd" Saturday
of a particular month.

As currently stated, each year for the next several,
TN's turkey opening date will get 1 day closer to March.
Four years from now, it will open on Saturday, March 31, 2024.
Then in 2025, it will open on March 30.

 

[deerfever]

Thanks for the clarification, I was going on last year and next season. To me and I said this in an earlier post it would be simple to say, the juvenile hunt is the first Saturday in April and the regular season is the following Saturday. I think that be simple and satisfy most.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . it would be simple to say,
the juvenile hunt is the first Saturday in April
and the regular season is the following Saturday.
I think that be simple and satisfy most.

I totally agree --- from a totality of perspectives.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Thanks for the clarification, I was going on last year and next season. To me and I said this in an earlier post it would be simple to say, the juvenile hunt is the first Saturday in April and the regular season is the following Saturday. I think that be simple and satisfy most.

I'm all for it. It's simple and accomplishes something. That's what I recommended for season dates. Maybe someday.

 

[megalomaniac]

I'm all for simple as long as the population is doing just fine. but I doubt the general hunting public would be fine with simple regulations that would be needed during the years when reproduction is poor.

Lets be honest, a 3 bird limit does nothing. Pushing the season back 1 week does nothing but make us feel like we are making a difference. But those good feelings won't put any more poults on the ground.

To really make a difference, season needs to be delayed until the end of April in TN. Limits are irrelevant. Anything less than that is just pissing in the wind.

On another note, I don't know if it is a statewide issue, but this year we chopped up an unusally high number of nesting hens. Early spring greenup caused the hayfields to get taller sooner, attracting more hens to them to initiate nests. Wet late spring caused us to delay timing of cutting hay. Normally, hens will flush off their nests while cutting hay (because they are early in the incubation process); this year, they were close to hatching by the time we were able to finally cut... so the hens wouldn't flush and got chopped up with their nests. If that is a statewide issue and not just a local issue limited to my areas, we might actually see a negative population impact from late spring hay season.

 

[woodsman04]

It's the southern portion of Lincoln, Giles, and Lawrence that are struggling. It's like high way 64 is some impenetrable barrier and north of it is good and south of it is outright dismal.

I think there are 0 turkeys south of 64 in Lawrence county.


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[JCDEERMAN]

It's the southern portion of Lincoln, Giles, and Lawrence that are struggling. It's like high way 64 is some impenetrable barrier and north of it is good and south of it is outright dismal.

I think there are 0 turkeys south of 64 in Lawrence county.


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It's not too much better directly north. We are close to hwy 100 directly north of you. I didn't hear a gobble or see a turkey the last 5 weeks of the season :shock:

 

[Rockhound]

It's the southern portion of Lincoln, Giles, and Lawrence that are struggling. It's like high way 64 is some impenetrable barrier and north of it is good and south of it is outright dismal.

I think there are 0 turkeys south of 64 in Lawrence county.


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Theres are a couple pockets, but there are very, very few turkeys south of 64 in Lawrence county

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Wayne is as bad or worse than those counties. It's pitiful in the whole county especially the southern portion. You can throw Hardin East of Savannah in there as well