3 Bird Limit Next Year

[Uncle Jesse]

No change on season dates?

Only for the Southern Middle and MS River counties.

What counties is it in southern middle Tennessee? I'm in Franklin county

 

[timberjack86]

Is there a link to what they passed and what they didn't? Thanks

 

[TN Larry]

This link shows a summary of what was passed and defines the MS River and Southern Middle TN counties.

https://www.tn.gov/twra/news/2020/5/29/ ... nored.html

The meeting can be watched on YouTube. The turkey discussion starts around the 5 hour mark while the actual presentation from TWRA is a little before then.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HWd0Y0LDJnk&t=16795s

 

[Uncle Jesse]

That's unreal that Lincoln has a delayed season. I had several hundred acres there that I could hunt back in the early 2000s. Turkeys everywhere then. Never dreamed this would happen

 

[deerfever]

Lincoln county killed 678 turkeys this season that is way better than any county I hunt in so I don't know how down it is or if something happened to make them study that county. I looked back to 2009 and Lincoln county killed over 100 less than it did this year. My point is it may be similar to when you hunted it I don't know. I will give you another example Giles county is in the turkey study but out of 95 counties it was in the top 5 with 857 kills for the season. So I don't know that the study is focusing on counties with a low number of birds or if something happened at some point to make them focus on these counties. I am guessing they dropped in kills at some point but seem to be turning it around. Just a guess on my part.

 

[woodsman04]

Won't make no difference limit three or four.


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[REN]

imo, you will not see anything getting any better as long as these raccoon and opossum populations keep climbing. the hunters are not the problems, it the predators eating all the eggs that's being laid

thats not actually factual or accurate. Yes they are an issue but to say hunters are not PART of the problem shows you are just giving an opinion based on limited knowledge.

there are LOTS of reasons for decline in different areas

 

[TheLBLman]

there are LOTS of reasons for decline in different areas

Exactly.

TWRA regulates the turkey hunting "rules".
Opening, closing dates, limits ---- these are things they CAN do to effect turkey populations.

There are many factors, but only a relatively few that TWRA can significantly effect.

TWRA CANNOT force people to kill predators,
some of which are highly federally protected.

The 3-bird limit will not make much difference.
Just a tiny step in the right direction by an agency that's long gone wrong with turkey regs.

 

[arkwaterfowler]

I am confused. The TWRC reduced the limit to 3 birds and changed the season in impacted counties and people are still complaining. Its a step in the right direction and i get the comments, too little too late, etc. Think about what you would do if you were in their shoes? No matter the decision you make, half the people will disagree.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

I am confused. The TWRC reduced the limit to 3 birds and changed the season in impacted counties and people are still complaining. Its a step in the right direction and i get the comments, too little too late, etc. Think about what you would do if you were in their shoes? No matter the decision you make, half the people will disagree.

The 3 bird limit was a token concession after all the proposals that might have been meaningful failed. The 3 bird limit literally passed BECAUSE it will not have a significant impact. Multiple people spoke and described the precipitous decline in turkey numbers over the last 5 years. The TWRA biologist stood up and said that (1) every measure of reproductive success is below what is needed for a healthy, sustainable population - % of hens attempting to nest, clutch size, nest survival, poult survival - all unacceptably poor. And (2) reducing the limit to 2 turkeys would have a significant impact on hunting pressure and gobbler survival which, they believe would impact (improve) the reproduction numbers. Because of that they DID NOT want to make that change. Because it would improve reproduction success and therefore might affect their money pit of a research project taking place in 6 counties out of 95. So they discussed a 3 bird limit. TWRA biologists said that, because so few kill 4 turkeys, reducing the limit to 3 probably would not affect reproduction or their research so the commission passed it.

To recap, they voted down every proposal that might have actually improved the reproductive health of a dwindling turkey population because improving reproduction right now might add another variable to a research project in 6 counties. But they reluctantly agreed to make a change that our own biologists said probably won't make a difference.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

TWRA is always strapped for cash but keeps spending the money on this study and refusing to change because of it. I believe 1 million was mentioned for this year. How many millions total have been spent on it? Just a couple of million would go along way toward continuing the addition of another 11,000 acres of public hunting in my area That is slated for turnover "when TWRA has the money".

 

[TheLBLman]

I am confused.
The TWRC reduced the limit to 3 birds and changed the season in impacted counties and people are still complaining.
Think about what you would do if you were in their shoes?
No matter the decision you make, half the people will disagree.

The 3 bird limit was a token concession after all the proposals that might have been meaningful failed.

Because (other changes) would improve reproduction success and therefore
might MIGHT affect a research project taking place in 6 counties out of 95.

To recap, they voted down every proposal that might have actually improved the reproductive health of a dwindling turkey population because improving reproduction right now might add another variable to a research project in 6 counties.

What would I have done if I had been in their shoes?

Simply have left the existing regulations in place on those 6 counties.
As to the other TN counties, made the limit 2 birds,
and changed the season opening ongoing to the 2nd Saturday of April.

At this time, I wouldn't worry about jakes, decoys, or bearded hens,
as the later season opening would mitigate much of those concerns.

As to that 6-county study, there would have been very little impact to its "integrity"
if real change were instituted in the others of our 95 counties.
To address those concerns, another option would be to keep those counties bordering those 6 unchanged.

Keep in mind, TWRA/Commissions negated some of their own "integrity" arguments about this study
when they did not exclude those 6 counties from the limit changing from 4 to 3 statewide.

And, no, there would not be a mass influx of hunters into those 6 counties to turkey hunt
had the season opened earlier there, and the limit remained 4 there.
Most of the land is private,
and most willing to travel would find a better opportunity just going to a more Southern state such as Alabama or Mississippi.
Whatever it's effect, compare it to the 3-bird limit's effect on that same study
which has been under a 4-bird limit since it began.

Some would argue that purposefully causing an increase in turkey hunting in that 6-county area might actually add more validity to this study.
But again, it was an option to just keep the "old" turkey regs, not only on those 6 counties, but those counties bordering the 6. THAT would have allowed for more meaningful change in the majority of our 95 counties.

 

[TheLBLman]

The TWRC reduced the limit to 3 birds and changed the season in impacted counties and people are still complaining.

By the way, "impacted" counties were not just those (count on one hand) counties bordering the Mississippi floodplain.

 

[Hawk]

Some of the regulations of Mo would have been an excellent guide for Tennessee to adopt.

https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/sites/defau ... ey2020.pdf

The only nests I have disturbed have been in the afternoon.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I know that both Georgia and Florida set up ways for the public to submit sightings of hens/poults during this time period so they can use the data for nesting success. I am not aware of TN ever doing anything like that. Just a thought for TWRA to better monitor the population to make decisions like this.

 

[AT Hiker]

None of this surprises me. Some of the comments on social media from former TWRA biologist makes that apparent.

 

[deerfever]

A couple of questions that I have thought about with all this as I looked into things and made my suggestions to the commission and I can live with the new limit. I am hoping some of you can answer 1. Giles County was put in the turkey study in 2016 and killed 486 birds that year. In 2020 Giles county killed 857 and is in the top 5 counties in the state . How did this happen as they kept all the current regulations of 4 birds and start date? Lincoln county did well also. 2. I hear about Dr. Chamberlain and the two week later start date. Is he from Georgia? Georgia starts March 21and has a 3 bird limit ,. people on here that hunt Georgia say it's great. So do we not already open two weeks later than Georgia ? Or is he suggesting mid April? Does he not have any influence in his own state? I do not mind the limit reduced 3 but I cannot figure the no bonus bird logic at all but will deal with it. If anyone can answer those questions I have thought about I would appreciate it. Thank you!

 

[megalomaniac]

deerfever, you have to look at the big picture...

Realize that turkey populations WILDLY fluctuate on a year to year basis due to turkey population being population independent and directly related to spring hatches and poult recruitment. It is nearly impossible to overharvest turkeys in the spring with no limit whatsoever needed if every hen is raising 4-5 poults to adulthood for just a couple consecutive years. That is why in a few areas, populations increase despite decreases in populations just a county or two over. Of course, the flip side is also true. It's very possible to completely eradicate turkeys from an area for a decade or more with a very conservative limit (even just a 1 bird limit) if hens are recruiting less than 2 poults to adulthood. Overall, TN statewide has had more poor production years than good production years.

As far as timing of season opening differing between states, you have to realize that the farther south you go, birds initiate nests earlier. Average nest initiation here in south MS is around April 7th, while average nest initiation in middle TN is April 28th. Birds in GA are a couple weeks ahead of TN birds.

 

[Doskil]

How can Georgia birds be ahead of TN birds?

Do birds recognize geopolitical boundaries?

 

[TDW05]

I am confused. The TWRC reduced the limit to 3 birds and changed the season in impacted counties and people are still complaining. Its a step in the right direction and i get the comments, too little too late, etc. Think about what you would do if you were in their shoes? No matter the decision you make, half the people will disagree.

If I was in their shoes I believe I would simply listen to my best resources......hunters. Find some common ground and get a majority vote. I seen a lot say they were in support of a 2 week delay and a 2 bird limit. If you wanna kill more birds the hop in the vehicle and take off to public in surrounding states.