2022-24 Hunting season proposals

scn

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But if you're coming up with nothing - no known cause - then what should the remedial action be? Trying to something just for show, without actually understanding the problem, is not good science.
It also makes zero sense to just sit back and do nothing as the population goes down the bowl. Other Southeastern states are at least trying.
 

BSK

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It also makes zero sense to just sit back and do nothing as the population goes down the bowl. Other Southeastern states are at least trying.
Once again, "trying things" without knowing the root cause it not good science. I'm always going to stand on the side of good science.

If other states believe they know the cause, let's see their data.
 

FTP

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Once again, "trying things" without knowing the root cause it not good science. I'm always going to stand on the side of good science.

If other states believe they know the cause, let's see their data.
Just a side note….Boy we've heard those two phrases for 2 years…
Follow the science and look at the data.
The Great COVID Lie! And the minions of the devil who preach it.
 

scn

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Once again, "trying things" without knowing the root cause it not good science. I'm always going to stand on the side of good science.

If other states believe they know the cause, let's see their data.
So it's better to just continue to do the things that has your population decreasing because you don't know what to do?

That looks like something that isn't going to end well.

There are some things that might/should help that certainly wouldn't hurt the population.

Sometimes common sense should override data.
 

Hduke86

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So it's better to just continue to do the things that has your population decreasing because you don't know what to do?

That looks like something that isn't going to end well.

There are some things that might/should help that certainly wouldn't hurt the population.

Sometimes common sense should override data.
I was going to say the same thing about common sense should be put in place. We all know that the health and the way the turkey population is going on a whole is trending in the opposite way that we like. Yes there's some places that have not been in decline and then there's places that have always had a "strong" population. The places with strong population may have not been hit yet or hard enough for people to see that it could change for them in a couple of years. I think WE ALL know what SOME of the problems are and it doesn't take years and years of data to see the trend of over hunted, over killed, over promoting of a limited resources. One or two years of great kill rates followed by a year or two of bad hatches or survival rates doesn't end well when they are still promoting it as Come One Come All like we have a over abundance of turkeys. Sitting on your hands and waiting for the "light bulb" to come on will only hurt the state of the turkeys in the long run.
 

Tnshooter15

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Not trying to rile anyone up with this question. Is the turkey population down or are you all just not seeing as many as you want to see? I can take a 20 minute drive and it would be rare not to see close to 200 turkeys any given evening. Everyone I know that tried tagged out. We did have a dip in the population for a couple of years but we still had enough birds and now they are literally in every field I drive by. Even in the middle of Farragut in the neighborhoods.
 

BSK

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Just a side note….Boy we've heard those two phrases for 2 years…
Follow the science and look at the data.
The Great COVID Lie! And the minions of the devil who preach it.
And the entire Covid debacle is the prime example of bad - no TERRIBLE AND DESTRUCTIVE science. Basically, the undoing of science. That's what happens when politics gets involved.
 

Hduke86

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Not trying to rile anyone up with this question. Is the turkey population down or are you all just not seeing as many as you want to see? I can take a 20 minute drive and it would be rare not to see close to 200 turkeys any given evening. Everyone I know that tried tagged out. We did have a dip in the population for a couple of years but we still had enough birds and now they are literally in every field I drive by. Even in the middle of Farragut in the neighborhoods.
I can never see as many turkeys as I want to see lol. To answer your question for my area and hunting observation, which isn't the same for everyone. My observation is that I put many many miles under my boots going back the last 3 years at least and every year it "seems" to be less vocals in the woods, sign has been very sparse, and actually seeing turkeys is way way down. Could be for a number of reasons and I may have just had some good luck back to back to back seasons and this is what "normal" looks like. I don't have the answers but I can tell you one thing. The wma I hunt and have hunted for years is very secluded and I don't even think there's signage up saying it's a wma but the last I say 5-6 years after the "internet hunters" explosion that it has seen more and more traffic which blows my mind cause it's a WAY OFF the beaten path place. These are not local or even Tennesseans vehicles. The majority that I have seen are out of state which goes back to my concerns of promoting Tennessee as the hunter's destination with ZERO limits on how many can come. I know my area is NOT known for tremendous turkey numbers and if I saw 200 in an evening well that would be more than I've seen in the last 3 years combined.
 

TheLBLman

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And sometimes "common sense" - which is usually what we call our brain's desire for an easy answer - is wrong.
Well, when the turkeys are dying off faster than they're being replaced with new off-spring,
it just seems "common sense" we should be killing fewer of them annually,
as we seek more data as to all the causes?

One of the problems is not a lack of data, so much as it may be a lack of common sense in interpreting the available data.

And, too much emphasis has been placed on statewide (as well as county-wide) harvest data, which has somewhat camouflaged declining longer-established flocks in some counties (and parts of counties) as "new" flocks have expanded into areas previously more void. And, those interpreting the data seem to lack understanding regarding the progressively increasing killing abilities of the "average" turkey hunter.

When I started turkey hunting, it took me several years of effort to kill my first one. Today, novice hunters watch some you-tube videos, pick up a fan, and go kill a limit of turkeys.

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit, but not about my early days of ineffectiveness. Today's hunters have much more effective weapons, loads, and tactics than a few decades ago. Where I killed my first turkey back in the 1980's had more turkeys then than now, despite now having better nesting habitat, and still being thousands of contiguous acres of great turkey habitat.

I'm all for more data.
But while we're waiting to get it,
how about applying some pressure to the bleeding,
maybe slow it down a bit?

IMO, absolutely nothing could be simpler and more effective than delaying our season opening a week, while at the same time causing the least heartburn to TN's resident avid turkey hunters. And not for one second do I think our TWRA turkey biologist(s) haven't known this for years. But whatever their thoughts may or may not be, they're being trumped by the politics of non-resident revenue coming from a TN turkey season opening earlier than most other states.
 

scn

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And sometimes "common sense" - which is usually what we call our brain's desire for an easy answer - is wrong.
It continues to be hard for me to grasp why it is bad to try some things that the SCIENCE says could/should help with no danger whatsoever for the population.

Honest question:

When you give one of your clients a recommendation based on your knowledge, do you KNOW beyond a doubt what the results will be?
 

SC Manimal

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BSK is right- I'm pretty much done when I get a good one unless I have evidence of another. It needs to be pretty good evidence to continue waking up before 5 and choosing to leave my family on my day off.
I know a lot of you guys are more dedicated than I am but most of us won't continue to sacrifice as often for a slick head.
 

timberjack86

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It has nothing to do with being a primitive weapon enthusiast. The intent of the muzzleloading season was to limit the weapon's effectiveness to reduce the amount of animals taken during the peak of the rut. (when most ML seasons occur). With technology advancements, that's no longer the case.
Why? Twra wants us to kill them all. I see an all weapons season in our future. Which I'm not against. But I'm against killing off all the deer and the sky is falling.
 

DC219

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Signal Mountain, Tennessee
I don't think anyone has discussed a change to the buck limit, but since when is the buck limit a "right"?
I'm not saying it's a literal, constitutional "right". However, we presently have a right to kill two bucks per season, or are allowed to do so; whatever you want to call it. I'm simply opposed to just giving that up for any reason other than sound game management. I probably won't kill more than one buck each season, but having that second one greatly expands my hunting opportunities with my family and friends. There's a lot of people TWRA has to please, so there needs to be compromise. Maybe they could establish more big buck areas with tighter restrictions on some of the WMA's.
 

rukiddin

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Off subject of corn vultures…….
If a landowner lives in a area with only a certain date to take antlerless deer with a rifle (unit D), and they are using landowner exemption tags, then said landowner should be allowed to take antlerless deer with a rifle at anytime during the regular rifle season.

On the subject of coyotes, I can tell you you'll never eradicate them.but……….I have a lot of friends in NC where there is a live market and night hunting is allowed. That added value on trapping plus the night hunting has led to a lot fewer coyotes. Everyone I knows will tell you, yes, there's still coyotes but there's nothing like they used to be. I have no data to back it up only what I've been told and what I see when I go back home, but I think having a live market plus night hunting is the ticket for controlling (not eradicating) coyotes.
 

kentuckylakebuck1

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Paris Tn
Do what? Address the problem how, without knowing what the problem is?
you sound like you work for TWRA, if not, you would fit in just fine! how about we start with coyotes, stop writing depredation permits and open night hunting up for coyotes? how about instead of pissing money away on new trucks and boats, the TWRA puts some sort of bounty on coons,opossums and such? how about instead of outlawing pig hunting we open that up as well, how about we just use some common sense when it comes to managment of any kind? and while all that is going on, you and TWRA can play in your science labs? just a thought?
 

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