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#878047 - 08/20/08 03:49 PM For the guides
bigluresonly
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Registered: 04/09/08
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Loc: Cookeville

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I was curious about some of the trips gone wrong. Do guides ever get unreasonable clients, clients that get irrate over conditions and demand money back, clients that get too drunk? As many guides that are on here there has to be a horror story or two. Anyone got one?
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#878095 - 08/20/08 04:21 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
Taylor Administrator
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Registered: 09/10/07
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Loc: Brownsville, Tennessee

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I am sure there are horror stories on both ends.
Bad clients, bad guides.
I know I have heard both from each.

But just going by the numbers, I would say their are probably more stories of bad clients. Bad guides, don't stay in business that long, I wouldn't think...unless they work an area where they have such a high volume of customers that they do not have to worry about repeat business...and that is certainly hard to imagine in Tenn.

But it is another reason for references (for the client's AND the guide's sake), and pre-trip expectation/talks before booking a date, I think. Everybody knows what to expect... come play/pay day.

A lot of guides have told me, "...hey, I can take anything for a day...along with the thought, this son of a gun will be gone tomorrow...(you are only fishing one day, right?). lol...

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#878151 - 08/20/08 04:57 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Taylor]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I could write abook on bad clients-most of them hunting clients. Only twice have I had to throw hunters out of camp in 25 years of guiding. But in retrospect and in truth, I wonder. Were they really bad clients or were they just not what I expect from a client?

My fishing clients, for the most part, have been good. For some reason, they just seem to be better suited to being guided than hunters. Only one time in almost 35 years have I had to smack one with a boat paddle. With the anglers, I found if you just show them and talk to them and tell them what you are doing, they'll be okay.

But hunters, especially bowhunters, just have to prove to you they know more than you do. They pay 3-grand to come hunt then tell you how to run your business. Then, when they don't kill a monster, they blame you. Elk hunters, especially bowhunters are almost as bad. Bear hunters are the best.

He11, it's called guiding. If you can't deal with the vagaries of the public, don't do it.

But now how about guides? RSimms is the worst I ever went with. All he does is make you keep catching fish. Not once did he open a bottle of water for me. What's up with that?
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#878167 - 08/20/08 05:10 PM Re: For the guides [Re: bigluresonly]
rsimms
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Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2681
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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I can honestly say I've never had a "bad client" or bad experience. I've only been at it three years however. Everybody who's fished with me... and it's been a few hundred, have been great to spend time with. Some had more personality than others... but nobody has ever gotten mad or seemed disgruntled, even on a few trips that didn't go well in the "fish catching department."

HOWEVER, I suspect there are clients who can tell you some great stories about me. On one of my very first guide excursions, I forgot the keys to my boat. I had to call my wife and ask her to bring them to me.

AND, I know there are two gentlemen from Knoxville who will forever be telling the story of their idiot guide who had a fishing rod ripped from his hand, and dove headlong into the water after it. That's on old thread. If you missed it, I'll just go ahead and embarrass myself again:
http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=5&Number=828647
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#878170 - 08/20/08 05:12 PM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
Taylor Administrator
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Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 3061
Loc: Brownsville, Tennessee

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What...? You can't throw the switch, BW? lol.


 Originally Posted By: bowriter
RSimms is the worst I ever went with. All he does is make you keep catching fish. Not once did he open a bottle of water for me. What's up with that?


That Simms is a CRUEL man, indeed!

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#878194 - 08/20/08 05:33 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Taylor]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Let me tell you about Simms.

He knows I have a bad shoulder. So all day, he puts me where I have to try and lift big catfish up with a pukey little rod. Then, as if that isn't enough, he decides to run the boat 246.5 miles up the lake with waves higher than Stillunscrubed's ego. Each wave jerked my shoulder out of joint.

Then, he made me try and land a catperch that weighed just slightly less than 150 pounds. Talk about cruelty!

Naw, if you guide long enough, you'll run into some anal imperfactions. It goes with the business. But hunters are 100X worse than fisherpersons.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#878391 - 08/20/08 07:30 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
Fordman
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Registered: 08/06/00
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Loc: Rockvale,tn

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I have only had one set of "tough" clients and no really bad ones. I think the biggest, and most important thing I have learned to do as a guide to to ask questions. In doing that it drives conversation with a potential client and helps me to assertain what they want me to do.
I have sent numerous clients to other guides and not becasue I couldnt provide them the trip they wanted. I knew that a certain guide could give them a better experience in what they wanted. Today I can catifsh but I dont enjoy it so any catfishing calls I get will get reffered to the scenic city!
I think total honesty is they key to guide client relations. I had a terrible day with two fellows out of North Carolina. They were good fisherman but the fishing was off due to lord knows what. We stayed at it for 12 hours and they had and hour or two at the end where the blue wings started coming off. I felt like sheet at the time as I had never had a day where the fish "won". That was my best tip to date and both are booked with me this fall and winter for Trout and Striper.
They re booked because I told them up front it was going to be TOUGH fishing and I worked from daylight till dark to get them on some deccent fish. Guiding is not easy, nor cheap, you have to become a fishing buddy, valet, butler,and at times a shrink. Every client is different, some want nothing but your boat and some decent conversation, others want to to teach them how to do something. Some want you to fish, others get upset if you fish. I wouldnt trade what I do for anything but its not easy and Simms, bowriter,captian hook and others know when you put the pen to paper you will be doing well to break even most years.


Edited by Troy Basso (08/20/08 07:34 PM)

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#878542 - 08/20/08 08:36 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Fordman]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Okay, I know of a guide horror story. John Wilson, a fantastic Arkansas fly fishing guide, was out one day with 3 clients (a crowded boat). There was a decent shad kill on the Norfork, and he had those folks tossing some big, weighted streamers in a strong crosswind. Unfortuntely, the weakest caster of the bunch was right next to him, and the wind was blowing from the fly fisherman to the guide.

As you may have guessed, the client double-hauled that big ole streamer with the heavy barbell eyes, and it slammed at full speed into the back of John's noggin'. The guide dropped to his knees in shock and pain. Apparently, he even shed a tear but didn't want to let on his anguish.

Years later, when I called this guide for something, I said, "This is Gil Lackey. You probably wouldn't remember me, but..."

John jumped in, "Oh, I remember you. I hadn't cried like that since I was a kid!" \:D
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#878876 - 08/21/08 06:07 AM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
Taylor Administrator
10 Point


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 3061
Loc: Brownsville, Tennessee

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LOL, Gil.

Ever heard of "Hank" Wilson a guide from over in Ark....?

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#878942 - 08/21/08 06:41 AM Re: For the guides [Re: gil1]
Headhunter
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Registered: 11/14/00
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Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

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I figured the "best" guide would have to be the great TUBS! Maybe one day I can go fish with him and learn everything.
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#879286 - 08/21/08 09:38 AM Re: For the guides [Re: Headhunter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Wow Biglures...haha...congrats. Way to flush them out...I didn't know some of these folks were "Guides"...that explains alot...

Btw, there's a great book by a musky guide named Al Nutty who made his name and living almost simultaneously with the reputation of Kinkaid Lake as a musky guide. This poor guy had an accidnet in the printing press that nearly incapacitated him for life, but though he won't say it for being so humble, he overcame it, and now successfully guides clients over 330 days a year for oneof the most violent and physically trying species in freshwater and still manages to keep a safe and sane boat with 2 clients at a time in a 16 foot v hull Lund. Want to hear about stories? Check out his book....it's called "Tales from the Guide Boat" and I believe it can be found on Amazon. Great stuff, and a quick little read. Everything from horror stories, to one's-that-got-away...to how Al deals with unruly, inebriated clients...drops them off on this great big rock sitting in the middle of a cove and leaves them there for 3 hours!

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#879290 - 08/21/08 09:41 AM Re: For the guides [Re: Tubakka]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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In my opinion, btw, the only way you can consider yourself a "guide" is if that is your primary or ONLY means of providing for yourself and your family. Meaning, you're on the water as many days as Joe Blow spends in the office, because your office IS the water. And you are well able and adept to accomodate a number of conditions and tactics, not specific to one style of angling simply for its own sake. Be willing to do anything and everything to catch them fish, and live eat and breath it. You may take people out fishing and they pay you, and I'm not saying that some people AREN'T real guides on the board, but...
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#879301 - 08/21/08 09:46 AM Re: For the guides [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Okay. I'm not a guide anymore. Now I have a real job. I handle all the P.R. for a Nutty guy. He stole all his expertise from Buck but we don't mention that. Besides, he only guides for trash fish.

The Caney Fork "A" hole, which I thought was a sinkhole by the dam, is back.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879358 - 08/21/08 10:07 AM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Bowriter...

...I wouldn't talk smack about Al. He is a real angler...most people in his position wouldn't be able to get out of bed, and yet...he's doing something most well-fed grown men would have trouble doing physically, let alone with the expertise. He's a good guy, and has agreat book. IF you want to make me a jerk outof that, be my guest...

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#879369 - 08/21/08 10:13 AM Re: For the guides [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Yep. He is a great guy, a real household word up there. He dang sure went through some bad times and came out smelling like a Bartlet Pear.

Now what was his name again? And just what is it he does that is important to those of us down here? And while we are at it, Just exactly what is it you have contributed to this thread? Why is it so hard for you to understand none of us give a tinker's dam about Buck or Al?
]
Man! What is your problem????
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879379 - 08/21/08 10:18 AM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

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Dude...a guide is a guide. He overcame extreme adversity to do it as well...anyone from any walk of life could learn something from him. And he's a REAL guide and makes it work, doing seminars and presentations and writing for national publications. Bowriter, I respect your venerable status on this board, and I love to hear your old stories, but you're an absolute fool to talk about either Buck or Al. Al is no where near the angler Buck Perry was, but still...he's a very respectable human being and a great angler nevertheless. You don't like me? That's fine...but get over it enough to not go off the hook everytime I say anything. That's juvenile. And not giving a "tinker's dam" about Buck Perry is like being jazz pianist and not knowing who Dave Brubeck is...except in his case, let's pretend Brubeck discovered the harmonic series, and invented the piano.
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#879403 - 08/21/08 10:40 AM Re: For the guides [Re: Tubakka]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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ROTFLMAO

Kid, do you not realize you have become the laughing stock of this forum? You reinforce your status with each post.

Now we all duely respect both Buck and Al. But get serious. Do you really think anyone gives a crap about what they have done or what anyone has done?

I don't dislike you. I don't even know you. I just regard you as does most everyone on this forum. You're a joke, a kid with a complex of some sort. Do some growing up and lose the attitude.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879581 - 08/21/08 12:37 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Tubakka]
Fordman
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Registered: 08/06/00
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Loc: Rockvale,tn

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 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Wow Biglures...haha...congrats. Way to flush them out...I didn't know some of these folks were "Guides"...that explains alot...


What was it a game? I have never hidden my guide business and I dont think anyone posted on thread that I didnt already know about.

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#879584 - 08/21/08 12:39 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Fordman]
Fordman
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Registered: 08/06/00
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I am not getting into a pissin contest over pictures, I just dont feel any need to post a picture on the web to prove I am any good.
Besides once a picture is "posted" its also "published" there fore I would rather save them for a "publisher" who may want to buy them.

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#879704 - 08/21/08 02:03 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Fordman]
bowriter
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Rule of thumb for some of...don't post the ones that will make you money.

Pat from Bowsite just won a deal against Youtube and I made them back down on a deal a few weeks ago. It may be getting better but once that sucker becomes public, to the way of thinking of some, it is public property.

You've learned well, Troy.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879745 - 08/21/08 02:27 PM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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You know, funny thing about this guide business. It's a lot of work and the pay is usually less than minimum wage. But a few weeks ago I got an email from a gentleman that visits this site now and then thanking me for guiding his dad 20 years ago. He explained how that one trip eventually affected his whole family on down to his kids. Those things kind of make up for it.

When I started guiding in 1968, I started with just antelope, mule deer and elk. I truly did not have a bad trip. When I came to TN, I took out a few fishermen but since I was still learning the waters, I didn't push it much. Then in 1981, when the whitetail boom hit, I leased 7,500 acres and started guiding deer hunters-mostly bowhunters. That is when I started having a few idiots in camp. At the same time, I was guiding for smallmouth on Priest, C.Hill and the Holler.

Then I branched out to the new opportunities in the Midwest and worked some summers in Canada and a few weeks in the mountains. All together I have no idea how many clients I have had in the boat or in camp. My guess would be a lot. I know we paid almost $70,000 in leases one year and still made money.

But during that entire time I was writing for money. Guiding wasn't my sole income. It makes me kind of sad to learn that me and RSimms aren't really guides. \:\)

But then, after some carefull consideration, I wonder what the he11 that has to do with anything? What I really want to know is what they did with the water on the river Tuesday morning? What a mess.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879768 - 08/21/08 02:49 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Fordman]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Cookeville

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 Originally Posted By: Troy Basso
 Originally Posted By: Tubakka
Wow Biglures...haha...congrats. Way to flush them out...I didn't know some of these folks were "Guides"...that explains alot...


What was it a game? I have never hidden my guide business and I dont think anyone posted on thread that I didnt already know about.


Not at all Troy. I know a bunch of vetran guides are on this board and was looking for a laugh about trips gone wrong, that's all.

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#879806 - 08/21/08 03:22 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
You know, funny thing about this guide business. It's a lot of work and the pay is usually less than minimum wage.


I don't know about your side of guiding but mine certainly pays more then minimum wage. It used to be that during peak season I could make 45,000+, not getting rich but certainly paying the bills and definitely making more then min. wage. I retired mostly because of the need for health insurance, and to pursue a professional career. I still guide quite a bit but nothing like when I was full time and it was my profession.



I made a he11 of a lot more than that but when you divide it by the hours you get a different picture. Then take out the expenses and you get real good picture. It sounds really neat to say you took in over a quarter million this year until you take out the $200,000 in actual costs. I can bank $25k sitting on my butt writing stories.

It's all relative.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#879870 - 08/21/08 03:55 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Okay. You win.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#880024 - 08/21/08 05:51 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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A Dewey button.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#880049 - 08/21/08 06:06 PM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5867
Loc: Rockvale,tn

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
You know, funny thing about this guide business. It's a lot of work and the pay is usually less than minimum wage.


I don't know about your side of guiding but mine certainly pays more then minimum wage. It used to be that during peak season I could make 45,000+, not getting rich but certainly paying the bills and definitely making more then min. wage. I retired mostly because of the need for health insurance, and to pursue a professional career. I still guide quite a bit but nothing like when I was full time and it was my profession.



I made a he11 of a lot more than that but when you divide it by the hours you get a different picture. Then take out the expenses and you get real good picture. It sounds really neat to say you took in over a quarter million this year until you take out the $200,000 in actual costs. I can bank $25k sitting on my butt writing stories.

It's all relative.


Captian Hook, I am not trying to start a argument at all here, did you guide for a shop or independantly? At 350 a trip I calculate my time, generally 12 hours for a full day, fuel for the boat, take 15% and stash it for boat repair/ replace/upgrade fund, 10% into truck account for tires and vehicle maint, money for guide liences, insurance, food and rods,reels,lines,flies.
I do it because I love it not becasue a fella can get rich doing it. By the way who is charging the 500.00 a day that Tubs speaks of?

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#880057 - 08/21/08 06:11 PM Re: For the guides [Re: bowriter]
Fordman
12 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 5867
Loc: Rockvale,tn

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
Rule of thumb for some of...don't post the ones that will make you money.

Pat from Bowsite just won a deal against Youtube and I made them back down on a deal a few weeks ago. It may be getting better but once that sucker becomes public, to the way of thinking of some, it is public property.

You've learned well, Troy.


Yep got burnt once and just spent three weeks trying to get one of my photos removed from another website... took several hours and one letter from a very convincing lawyer to get it done.

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#880080 - 08/21/08 06:22 PM Re: For the guides [Re: ]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41792
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
A Dewey button.


Now I am really lost.


Yeah. I didn't think you were that old. Dewey ran for president. Lost.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#880092 - 08/21/08 06:31 PM Re: For the guides [Re: Fordman]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Quote:
Yep got burnt once and just spent three weeks trying to get one of my photos removed from another website... took several hours and one letter from a very convincing lawyer to get it done.


If any of you guides need one of those letters from a "very convincing lawyer," give me a call.

I make more than minimum wage though.

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (08/21/08 06:32 PM)

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