#858025 - 08/07/08 01:30 PM
The realities of managing for mature bucks
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I keep hearing upset hunters complaining TN doesn't manage our herd correctly because they personally are not killing mature bucks. Do hunters realize how rare mature bucks are even in a extremely well-managed herd?
One of the very best deer managers in the world--Mickey Hellickson, the head biologist of the King Ranch--has also been managing a sizeable piece of property in the monster buck mecca of Iowa. His research shows that even in Iowa free-ranging herds can only produce so many mature bucks. His data indicates the local buck age structure of this free-ranging herd maxed out at 5-8% of the buck population being mature. Interestingly, that is what I see on well-managed TN lands, mature bucks making up 5-8% of the buck population. That's around 1 buck out of 20 being mature. And as hard as mature bucks are to see and kill, that would not be many bucks harvested across the state if hunters are only killing mature bucks. In addition, the deer herd would rapidly over-populate if only 5% of the buck population was harvested each year. That's just a biological reality that cannot be overcome.
Then we have those who question why we don't produce more 150+ bucks. Well even in the best soil areas of MS, which produce higher-scoring antlers than most of TN does, only 15% of MATURE bucks grew 150+ antleres. In the poor soil quality areas 150+ mature bucks were less than 5%. So we have 1 in 20 bucks being mature and at best only 15% of those over 150. That's not many bucks to share among the hunters of TN.
Even with our harvest of approximately 50% yearling bucks, STILL ONLY AROUND 1/3 OF HUNTERS IN TENNESSEE KILL ANY BUCK AT ALL in a given year. And now some demand more mature bucks with high scoring racks? How low of a hunter success rate on bucks is acceptable? 10%? 5%? It is a BIOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY to produce the number of high-scoring mature bucks hunters demand the TWRA produce.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#858032 - 08/07/08 01:32 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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In 12 years of intensive management, I've been able to produce a grand total of 4 bucks topping 150 on my place. We were lucky to harvest 2 of them. Of the caliber of bucks hunters demand the TWRA produce, only 4 bucks produced and only 2 killed in 12 years of INTENSIVE management--far more intensive than a state agency could ever accomplish. And we consistantly run 5-8% mature bucks every year, but only 4 in 12 years topped 150.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#858046 - 08/07/08 01:39 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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Hillbilly Hunter
Killbilly
16 Point
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 16982
Loc: Branchville
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good info.
_________________________
...they never call me by my name, just Hillbilly...
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#858050 - 08/07/08 01:41 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16991
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Good post, Bryan.
Regarding the percentages of mature bucks scoring above 150, I wonder how that percentage would change if we could eliminate high-grading?
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#858071 - 08/07/08 01:47 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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MFBAB
10 Point
Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 2916
Loc: Memphis, TN
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In that definition of "Mature" are we talking 3.5, 4.5 or older? Does that mean that the other 92-95% of the mature bucks were either harvested off of that property or died in other ways? That just seems like a low number to me unless "mature" means 5.5 or something unusually old.
As far as the state regs. go, they are what they are. I would just feel a lot better if I thought they were diligently protecting bucks 1.5 years old, I think they at least have a fighting chance of getting some real age on them if they can make it through that first hunting season. A 1.5 year old buck is about the dumbest thing walking in the woods. I just don't understand what it does for anyone who has taken their first buck already to shoot a 1.5 year old buck, especially if doe harvest is an option in their area. I would love to see our harvest data if the 1.5 year old harvest was reduced to 0% instead of Approx. 50%, I just believe you would start seeing a major difference in high end (for TN standards, not Iowa)within a couple of years.
_________________________
Missed it by that much....
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#858086 - 08/07/08 01:54 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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JCDEERMAN
14 Point
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 7635
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN
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Yes, very good post.
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one
In God we trust
God bless the USA!
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#858104 - 08/07/08 02:02 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Good post, Bryan.
Regarding the percentages of mature bucks scoring above 150, I wonder how that percentage would change if we could eliminate high-grading?
I will have to review the King Ranch's data and see what percent of their mature bucks gross over 150 (since their antler score by age-class data almost perfectly matches most of TN). But I don't think it is much higher.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#858129 - 08/07/08 02:12 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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Mathews Hunter
12 Point
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 6552
Loc: Southern Middle Tennessee
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Kind of puts things into prospective. As it has been stated before, realistic expectations.
_________________________
"I've always believed that if you put in the work, the results will come. I don't do things half-heartedly. Because I know if I do, then I can expect half-hearted results"
MICHAEL JORDON
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#858144 - 08/07/08 02:20 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: Mathews Hunter]
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kry226
4 Point
Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 433
Loc: Maryland
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It puts into perspective how lucky we are to actually take a 150+ buck. They are the rarest of creatures.
_________________________
hang up and drive
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#858149 - 08/07/08 02:23 PM
Re: The realities of managing for mature bucks
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16991
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I will have to review the King Ranch's data and see what percent of their mature bucks gross over 150 (since their antler score by age-class data almost perfectly matches most of TN). But I don't think it is much higher.
Would make for an interesting study in Tennessee. Hint, hint.
Almost every time a "super"-antlered buck is born in most areas, he is heavily targeted and killed before he can reach the age of 3 1/2. I've done it several times myself, but hopefully never again.
Last year one of my hunting buddies killed a 2 1/2-yr-old TN buck that Ben scored at over 131 net B & C. These "super" bucks seldom make it to the "mature" level, so we basically have the inferior-antlered bucks living to 4 1/2 and older. And while we know 5 1/2 and 6 1/2-yr-old bucks SHOULD score more on average than 3 1/2 and 4 1/2-yr-old bucks, I have been seeing exactly the opposite. The only thing I can attribute this to is "high grading".
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