#853933 - 08/05/08 10:32 AM
My thumbs are raw!
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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My thumbs are raw from lipping bass to remove hooks. I fished a dogfight yesterday afternoon and got on a point that was stacked with bass. They would hit anything I threw at them. I started out with a crank bait and got tired of dealing with treble hooks and switched to a jig. They tore it up until I got it hung and broke it off. I then threw a Texas rigged lizard at them and they literally tore it off the hook. I think I used 6 lizards before I got tired of replacing lizards a started throwing a spinner bait. They ate it up on six consecutive casts. Then it stopped and I couldn't buy a bite. If my ciphering is correct I caught 52 bass on that point. One of which was over 15 inches. I bet I caught
30 that were 14 to 14.5 inches. Took one keeper back to the weigh-in.
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#854200 - 08/05/08 12:25 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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bob
4 Point
Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn
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Hard to believe that there are still tournaments going on in this heat. That has to be rough on the fisherman let alone the fish.
I’m not trying to be negative or start a fight and this isn't pointed at you Kirk, but has anyone done a study on mortality rates of Bass released at tournaments during these high heat periods? It has got to be rough to be pulled from cool deep water and put in a small glass box with 90 degree surface water being forced into it. Could it be that this is the reason for so many fish under the size limits?
Again I’m not looking for a fight but I would like to hear the other side of this. What are the positives to tournament weigh ins during summer’s dog days.
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#854260 - 08/05/08 01:06 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bob]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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I believe there have been a lot of studies done. As I recall, the tournament guys, at least a lot of them, refuse to believe the data.
And I am not bashing tournament fishing or tournaments. I am simply saying what I recall and believe to be true. These hot weather tournaments are deadly on bass. Yes, they are released alive. But the survival rate is atrocious. No. I can't state facts and figures. This is just what I recall.
And yes, if they aren't too big, I keep me a mess of legal bass and eat them. I know for a fact what their survival rate is.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#854289 - 08/05/08 01:17 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I will not take your post as criticism but rather as an opportunity to educate. Since you are making some pretty general statements I will only address my preparation for live well storage. Any fish I catch is put right back in the lake if they don't measure at least 15 inches. If a fish does measure they go in a live well that is cooled and contains Rejuvenate. I have not lost a fish since I started doing this. As with anything you do in life, proper planning and preparation is the key to success. My fish are always very lively when I release them back in into the lake. I never release my fish in shallow water after the weigh-in. I will take them to a deeper water area.
Why does College Football start when it is still 90 degrees in the South?
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#854294 - 08/05/08 01:20 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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NO I don't radio tag them and check back on them a week later. 
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#854372 - 08/05/08 01:56 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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bob
4 Point
Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn
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I wondered if the newer boats had some kind of better livewell system. I’m glad to hear they do.
To be honest I’ve never been a fan of the tournament thing mostly because of what it does to some of the people. But just recently I watched a weigh in and saw some really nice fish go belly up as they were being released. To the fisherman’s credit he tried to revive the Bass but nothing short of a miracle was going to save these fish. So he just left them in the water to float and die.
One other thing I noticed was at the pavilion where the fish were being weighed folks were standing there in a line with plastic bags of fish and not much water for a few bass. And there has to be a better solution then sliding them 30’ down a scouring hot PVC tube into hot water.
It sometimes seems like the smaller tournaments don’t take the time or spend the cash to do things right. For example an O2 injected dunk tank for all the fish waiting in line to be weighed.
My take on this was that if enough folks who have a legitimate share in the Bass fishery saw this type of negligence, then small budget tournaments might one day become a thing of the past.
You really don’t have to radio tag the fish to see the impact. Look at Crappie, a very sought after food fish. When you put a size limit on them all of a sudden most of what you catch is undersized. It would seem logical to assume this is because more of the keeper size fish are being caught and eaten. Removed from the system.
I might be wrong but I don’t hear about that many folks who eat a limit of LM and even then the limit is very sustainable by a healthy fishery. So where are all these fish going? I’ve fished some zero limit lakes before and I can tell you they are amazing places to fish. Just don’t get caught with a fish in your livewell.
Again not trying to start a fight just interested in the opinion of the other people out here.
BTW, congratulations on a good day. Sore thumbs tell the tale.
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#854395 - 08/05/08 02:04 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bob]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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The boat manufacturers and BASS, FLW etc saw a problem and have tried to remedy it with technology and procedures. There are a lot of devices, upgrades and easy fixes out there. Even with these fancy upgrades the only real solution to this issue is angler intent. You have to intend for that fish to survive and make a healthy return to the lake. If you don't give a chit, it won't survive.
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#854496 - 08/05/08 03:09 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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rsimms
10 Point
Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2521
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Summer bass mortality aside... congrats on the great catch. I'm sure that was an awesome amount of fun, even if you didn't bring home a check. 
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#854564 - 08/05/08 03:40 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: rsimms]
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bigluresonly
6 Point
Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 621
Loc: Cookeville
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Sounds like you had a blast, congrats!
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#854665 - 08/05/08 04:30 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bigluresonly]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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It was fun. I couldn't believe I was catching that many bass. At one point I think I caught a bass on 8 maybe 9 consecutive casts with crank bait. I am taking my son tomorrow and let him do some
fishing in a stacked hole. Good way to learn how to "feel" a bite.
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#854669 - 08/05/08 04:33 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bigluresonly]
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bowriter
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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Kirk I don't know if your post was directed at me or not but I'll address it.
Don't confuse catch, unhook and throw back with catch, unhook, put in livewell, hold up and shake around and weigh and release as the same thing. The survival rate on the quick catch and release is probably pretty good. I doubt, despite all the advancements and precautions tournament fishermen might take, you would see anywhere near the same results. Whne you say oyu have not lost a fish, what you are saying is that they were alive at weigh in. That is not the same as survival. Survival is still alive in three days...or five. And no, I have no data, just reccolections of studies I have seen. I seem to recall about a 55% death rate.
It's called stress. When you jack one's jaw, skid them across the surface, swing them in the boat, bang them on the bottom and throw them in a livewell, they tend to not do so well.
Again, let me reitterate, if they are over 15" and under 3 pounds, I know what the survival rate is in my boat. ZIP! Glad you had a good time. But if you want to see raw thumbs, try catching that many with 4.5# average 
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#854690 - 08/05/08 04:41 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bowriter]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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No your just vain. I was addressing the first questioner not the guy that jumped on last.
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#854871 - 08/05/08 06:38 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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shopson
10 Point
Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 4123
Loc: Greeneville
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I wonder if you and your son catch 50 more if they will die since you are fun fishing instead of tourney fishing. I'd do the same thing. catch them while the catching is good. I hope they are still there so he can get in on the action.
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#854943 - 08/05/08 07:25 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: shopson]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I hope we do.
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#854978 - 08/05/08 07:38 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: shopson]
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ewc
8 Point
Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2086
Loc: Knoxville
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All fish get stressed when H20 temps warm beyond their prefered tolerance. Add angling stress and you potentially add mortality.
One TTU study I remember, concluded survival of angler caught striped bass was 15% or less when water temps reach 80 degrees.
Even if they swim off, 85% of those fish will die. Fact.
Better off to either keep them, (if regs allow) or to target other species.
I'm not posting this to pass judgement as I don't care what one catches, or when he/she does it-
just posting what I know.
Summer fishing induces a certain amount of mortality on target species even if they are released.
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#856656 - 08/06/08 05:41 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: ewc]
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DoubleDeuce
4 Point
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 327
Loc: Bartlett, TN
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Glad to hear someone is catching a lot of fish. Nice info ewc did you go to tn tech?
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#856753 - 08/06/08 06:56 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: DoubleDeuce]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I took my son back to the spot tonight and the strike wasn't as hot as it was Monday but they were still very warm. We caught 27 between us. Three really solid keepers, some stripes and bunch of slicks.
Disclaimer: All fish were immediately released.
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#857080 - 08/06/08 10:11 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25335
Loc: TN
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Sounds like fun, congrats!
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#857268 - 08/07/08 05:52 AM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Winchester]
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ewc
8 Point
Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2086
Loc: Knoxville
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Yes, from 94-96 I was a graduate student under O'Bara.
My research was on walleye in the Clinch and Powell rivers that feed Norris Reservoir.
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#857609 - 08/07/08 09:19 AM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Jason Eldridge]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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The thing that is baffling me is why they are there. When we got tired of fishing I made several passes over it just to get a good electronic read on whats under there.They are stacked in 6 foot of water, no real structure. The point has semi-gradual drops off in to 20 feet of water. The fish are located about 50 yards off the shore line. From what I can tell they are concentrated in an area about 50 by 50 foot. There must be an underwater spring there or something that cools the water down in that spot. (Although the surface temperature was 87 degrees in every area I checked).
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#857667 - 08/07/08 09:53 AM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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Jason Eldridge
10 Point
Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 3414
Loc: South Carolina
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Hmmm, you may be all over it with the spring idea.
_________________________
The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.
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#858187 - 08/07/08 02:47 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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shopson
10 Point
Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 4123
Loc: Greeneville
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Is that a TVA lake that gets drawn down in the winter? If so, probably not a spring.
May also have to do with the thermocline. I doubt seriously you are on Douglas Lake, but TWRA wewbpage says in summer when water temps are high on Douglas, fish 10 feet or less due to ogygen levels.
Don't really matter why as long as you are catching fish!
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#858233 - 08/07/08 03:21 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: shopson]
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bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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Kirk- I have exactly the same situation in Al. For two years the fish have been stacked in a 20X20 area and I can find no reason for it. I know it is not a spring. These bass weigh between 4-8 pounds. Not a fish under 4. Last summer we caught 50 in the morning and 50 in the afternoon. We did that for a month, fishing that spot two days a week. I know we caught many of the same bass because some of them still had what was left of our purple worms in their mouth.
And yes, I got lots of witnesses. Just a quirk of pescando, I guess.
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#858243 - 08/07/08 03:32 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bowriter]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I would like to find out why because if these same conditions exist in other areas of the lake the results should be similar.
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#858945 - 08/08/08 05:58 AM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bowriter]
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shopson
10 Point
Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 4123
Loc: Greeneville
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Kirk- I have exactly the same situation in Al. For two years the fish have been stacked in a 20X20 area and I can find no reason for it. I know it is not a spring. These bass weigh between 4-8 pounds. Not a fish under 4. Last summer we caught 50 in the morning and 50 in the afternoon. We did that for a month, fishing that spot two days a week. I know we caught many of the same bass because some of them still had what was left of our purple worms in their mouth.
And yes, I got lots of witnesses. Just a quirk of pescando, I guess.
Bowriter, as you stated earlier, "And I am not bashing tournament fishing or tournaments. I am simply saying what I recall and believe to be true. These hot weather tournaments are deadly on bass. Yes, they are released alive. But the survival rate is atrocious. No. I can't state facts and figures. This is just what I recall."
Lokk at all those poor wasted 4-8lbers.
As Josey Wales said, "Turtles got to eat, same as the worm.", oh excuse me, he said buzzard.
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#859406 - 08/08/08 10:51 AM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bowriter]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I see Dead Fish everywhere!
<+))><
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#860616 - 08/09/08 02:17 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: Kirk]
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shopson
10 Point
Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 4123
Loc: Greeneville
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I think I comprehended. Kirk was catching and releasing and so were you. Only difference is that he was happened to be in a tourney. I am by all means not bad mouthing cause if opportunity knocks, I will do the same thing. I am just saying there is no difference for a tourney fisherman doing it and a common fisherman.
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#860653 - 08/09/08 02:46 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: shopson]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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You right there is little difference except for perception. If a fish eater catches 10 fish and eats five they have impacted the fishery far more than I have. If I caught and released 51 of 52 fish I caught then only 1 of them fell into the evil bass tournament category. If Bowriter caught 100 fish and released 100 fish then he is only a few percentage points closer to Sainthood than I am. However, since none of my released fish were close to 4 lbs I guess I will have to perform a few card tricks and saw a lady in half before I can apply for Sainthood. (Bowriter I am kidding so don't go Krakatoa on me. )
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#860659 - 08/09/08 02:50 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: shopson]
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bowriter
Non-Typical
Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 40337
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA
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No. You only partially got it. I had/have no problem at all with Kirk catching and releasing. The tournament deal came in later. The discussion was about tournament fish in hot weather in general. It has nothing to do with Kirk's trip in particular.
I could care less if you catch and throw back immediately 100 bass in 113 degree weather...which I did last summer. My problem is with the way they are treated in tournament situations.
Why is this so hard to understand? Is it me? I don't have the slightest problem with Kirk. None at all. I don't have a problem with tournament fishing. None at all. I have a problem with the survival rates on tournament fish caught and weighed in, in the heat of the summer.
What is so confrugulating about that?
_________________________
Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.
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#860970 - 08/09/08 08:16 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: bowriter]
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ewc
8 Point
Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2086
Loc: Knoxville
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I would almost say ditto, but I hate the way that sounds.
If you catch and immediately release a 100 bass in 80 degree water, some of those are dead fish swiming away, it matters not that you let them go. They are dead because you stressed them with a rod and reel. I will try to pull some old papers to give you all a percentage. Hopefully, some of you get the idea-
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#861024 - 08/09/08 08:48 PM
Re: My thumbs are raw!
[Re: ewc]
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Kirk
14 Point
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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That would make an interesting post for you to start.
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