Tndeer Logo

Page 8 of 9 « First<56789>
Topic Options
#843457 - 07/29/08 01:24 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
stik
"Popcorn"
18 Point


Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 20895
Loc: lenoir city,tn

confused Online
i float the clinch often from p.o. to the bridge. i keep a few fish for the table and IF i catch one of the monster browns, it should be MY CHOICE whether to keep it or not. i paid for those fish just like everybody else and if i want to eat a few, i will.
_________________________
experienced hunters know its not just a bushy white tail, its a big middle finger.

nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught


Top
#843466 - 07/29/08 01:33 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: waterman]
Homebrewer
4 Point


Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 168
Loc: Smith County

Offline
no size limit
Top
#843773 - 07/29/08 05:03 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
Tubakka
6 Point


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 782
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
I skimmed over alot of these not out of apathy but simply because I do not have the time, but here is what I have always found interesting...

...I first put a line in the Caney in the fall of '06. I really had no idea what I was doing, but pooled my resources, did my homework, and learned from some good sources, but none of which took the place of sheer elbow grease and footwork. In that, I talked to lots nad lots of people, and all demographics of anglers that population the stereotypical tailrace trout river in their stereotypical manner were present in droves to draw upon. I still remember the first time I encountered a TU boy [no offense, but this wasn't even a good angler using fly tackle, as they do exist...he was just the Orvis poster boy, the angling equivalent of a mannequin]. He told me how rare those BIG browns were and how I'd probably NEVER get a keeper, let alone one 20"...they were SO rare, in fact, that HIS largest was 16" and that was a whopper! I bought into it, and then did some research...turns out tailraces, including the Caney, have proven themselves to produce some of the largest moving water trout on the planet, in fact...THE largest browns. So...why were they SO rare there? Turns out they weren't. As my awareness grew, personally, I began to treat these fish as I knew they existed, and began trageting them even before I was catching them. I slowly and surely began catching more and more "trophy" brown trout and seeing MANY MANY more much larger, and while my largest so far was 28", I have seen far bigger in that river, and multiples on days. I've even had a day where I caught 4 browns over 20" to about 24", and lost a whopper. A fish, a 20" brown trout, that was once told to me by some of the most outspoken members of the angling community [that tiny but rather loud demographic of poster boy fly anglers] turned out to be rather common.

It also turned out that once myself and several others had discovered this resource and began to take advantage of it within legal parameters, we had a target sign painted on us, how we were "meat hunters" and basically just all around terrible people for utilizing a resource to a greater degree than they were aware. So the henhouse stirred and the feathers flew...time passes.

I am further aware of fish in the river, trout, that can in fact, EAT the 20" browns that are considered trophies [how can you, again consider a trophy fish 20" when they can reach in this inparticular water in excess of 36-7" inches?]. So I get on here one day and find that an angler, utilizing the resources at hand, has found a patter to getting what is probably the top predator niche in the fishery, TARGETING those animals by playing off their instincts and habits to a great level of precision...large live bait. They had an awareness of these animals and only when they began to utilize that knowledge did we all become aware of them in our system. They were considered flukes. I say I bet there are more HUGE trout in that and other tailraces in the state than we can possibly imagine...just like in all our lakes and rivers otherwise, there are more trophies and records than we could ever know, but our knowledge limits us in becoming aware of them. Deep water tendencies and periods of inactivity both make t hem elusive to both angling and fisheries methods...though they do show up from time to time in both.

All this aside, I never do think that anglers as a whole will be able to truly dent the population of larger [25" +] trout in that river because they do not have the patience, time, skill, or knowledge combined to partake of that resource...as it takes all of those things in unison. We're not necessarily dealing with just ONE fishery...we're dealing with SEVERAL that have sequential runover into the other, but still...a 10" brown is NOT a 10 lb brown is NOT a 20-30-40 lb brown and will not be caught by the same angler suing the same methods. The beauty of these fish...they span such a breadth of size and predatory dominance. They are truly marvelous. Gil...dammit...catch and release? Sure...let the fishery collapse in on itself...wtih all those numbers, in ANY population of ANYTHING it happens EVERYTIME. Harvest isn't a BAD thing in a fishery DESIGNED for it.

That said, you're allowing people to have a say in the management of a river that aren't even actually targeting the fish they're trying to speak out about. For most [MOST] guys holding a flyrod to say they're targeting "trophy" browns and saying they should have a stake in their regs is like letting crappie fishermen dictate the size limit on muskellunge in a given lake. It's preposterous. It's more sense to let the striper guys drifting live rainbows and skippies to have their say as to the population of larger trout present and how it should be managed accordingly than some of these guys. That goes for most spin and bait fishermen as well...really the only guys who have any business talking about trophy browns, TRUE trophies are the few boys out there paying the time and price to get them, like that gentleman fishing with the live trout. He was TARGETING those fish, I can't say I've been out there TARGETING those fish. I'd had my fair share come up and even on the hook, but to say I was fishing for them would've meant I was fishing something too big for all those 15-20" trout to even fit in their mouth. 5" is too small. Even 8" I believe...10-14" and now you're talking a bait worthy of TARGETING a true trophy brown. Start fishing with bait that big consistently, and then tell me how many truly big fish ARE present in that river with the current regs? You'll be surprised that human ignorance is a better protector of a fishery than a regulation ever could be.

As for my drop in that hat, all that aside? Definite reg on bows...protected slot from 16-23", so the meat hunters can have their way, and the trophy fish can have a good shot to get outside the range of most anglers to live to a larger more desirable size. Browns?...1 fish between 20"-24" and another over 30"....two fish limit. Or heck...just forget these stupid brookies, all they're good for is bait, and stock MORE browns. They survive better and get larger and fatter in general in this particular fishery.

Top
#844942 - 07/30/08 09:34 AM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: Tubakka]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tubakka

...I first put a line in the Caney in the fall of '06. I really had no idea what I was doing, but pooled my resources, did my homework, and learned from some good sources, but none of which took the place of sheer elbow grease and footwork. In that, I talked to lots nad lots of people, and all demographics of anglers that population the stereotypical tailrace trout river in their stereotypical manner were present in droves to draw upon. I still remember the first time I encountered a TU boy [no offense, but this wasn't even a good angler using fly tackle, as they do exist...he was just the Orvis poster boy, the angling equivalent of a mannequin]. He told me how rare those BIG browns were and how I'd probably NEVER get a keeper, let alone one 20"...they were SO rare, in fact, that HIS largest was 16" and that was a whopper! I bought into it, and then did some research...turns out tailraces, including the Caney, have proven themselves to produce some of the largest moving water trout on the planet, in fact...THE largest browns. So...why were they SO rare there? Turns out they weren't. As my awareness grew, personally, I began to treat these fish as I knew they existed, and began trageting them even before I was catching them. I slowly and surely began catching more and more "trophy" brown trout and seeing MANY MANY more much larger, and while my largest so far was 28", I have seen far bigger in that river, and multiples on days. I've even had a day where I caught 4 browns over 20" to about 24", and lost a whopper. A fish, a 20" brown trout, that was once told to me by some of the most outspoken members of the angling community [that tiny but rather loud demographic of poster boy fly anglers] turned out to be rather common.


Executive summary for the time-impaired:

"I started fishing the Caney in 2006, and someone told me the easiest way to catch big browns is with a jerkbait. I used a jerkbait and caught some. Now I think I am Buck Perry of the Caney Fork, educating the ignorant masses about trout that nobody knows of but me.

Insert gratiuitous bash of Trout Unlimited here."

bd


Edited by Brian Dunigan (07/30/08 09:36 AM)

Top
#844961 - 07/30/08 09:45 AM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: B.D.]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

Offline
Itís funny how those folks who have never contributed a G D thing to a fishery, other then remove fish from it, bash an organization that does tons for that very fishery...



Edited by bob (07/30/08 09:51 AM)

Top
#845086 - 07/30/08 11:10 AM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: waterman]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19297
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

Offline
Lemme add a couple things to this one. First its sheer ignorance as to any other scenarios but visual. I have fished some of the best trout waters in the country, and some of the better stocked lakes in California, Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado.

NM river was zoned for top six miles as trophy only, 1 fish limit over 20 inches and barbless hooks with lures or flies only, below the 6 mile stretch it was any legal bait no size limit. Have to say, the trophy and non-trophy sections of the river were both extremely busy even to the point of over crowded.

CA. The rules on this river were ridiculous and in a weeks time with a broken down helicopter on the side of that river I saw one other angler angler, I caught a bunch of fish but nothing to write home about. River was at the base of Montgomery pass in Bishop CA. Suppposedly a "Blue Ribbon" trout water.

CA. Pay Lakes, The lakes are fished hard but plenty of big fish many over 5 lbs, my biggest was a bow/hybrid that was 17 lbs, think the state record for a bow/hybrid was 23? mayby more cant remember. No size or slot limit on any of the pay to play lakes.

Colorado was awesome, never fished a trophy water but had a blast with goldens, rainbows, etc...nothing big but plenty to eat!


There are alot better trout waters in the country, many have been ruined by slot limits or silly rules, it turns people away when they have to worry about rules. You input to many rules and people will leave, the fishery foes down hill and everyone looses.

The Caney has been an awesome river for me, I have been going there since 98 and loving every minute of it. Played catch and release, fill the creel, flies, lures, bait, depends on the mood. Caught plenty of large trout in there as well. They are there and catchable, even more so if you fish the conditions of the river and the weather. To each their own on a public waterway, beware what you ask for, sometimes you get it! You push out the "bait slingers" to slot limits and over regulating you just might loose the $$ that affords the stocking program and what it was designed for in the first place.
_________________________
"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

Top
#845228 - 07/30/08 12:28 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41787
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

Offline
Moderation Tribeless, all things in moderation. \:\) On a forum upon which how to crap in a boat ranks at the top, what do you expect, common sense?
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

Top
#845646 - 07/30/08 05:04 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
AlabamaSwamper
12 Point


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5104
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...

Offline
TWRA has already put enough size limits on lakes/rivers that don't need them.

Pickwick comes to mind.

If it's beneficial and there is evidence it needs it then heck yeah but not because some big boss or commissioner wants it.
_________________________
Official BTR Scorer in NW Alabama and southern middle Tennessee

http://twitter.com/AlabamaSwamper

Top
#845927 - 07/30/08 07:50 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 19297
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: captain hook
 Originally Posted By: Unicam



There are alot better trout waters in the country, many have been ruined by slot limits or silly rules, it turns people away when they have to worry about rules. You input to many rules and people will leave, the fishery foes down hill and everyone looses.



This is completely false! Try whole communities based solely on a the river---> Big Horn River and Fort Smith Montana, Henry's Fork River, Last Chance Idaho, San Juan River Durango Colorado, and Deschutes River, Maupin, Oregon.

There are tons of rivers nationwide which are destination rivers based solely on the quality of fishing which is world class based on the regulations. Green River, Frying Pan, Missouri, Madison, South Fork of the Snake, Au Sable, Delaware, South Holston, Watauga, White, Little Red, the list could go on and on.

Your above statement is utterly false, and has no merit.


Read the whole post there Capt. Hook before you start slinging mud. I will agree there are some good and most of the rivers you named are fisheries for the rich and famous, not the every day angler wanting to have some fun with the familt, toss some bait and enjoy some fish on the barbie. You miss the point, or maybe make it for me.
_________________________
"Gun Free Zones are for VICTIMS!"

John 15:13

Top
#846445 - 07/31/08 07:19 AM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: Unicam]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

Offline
Unicam, I've got to disagree with your suggestion that regulations make fisheries go downhill. Your examples of western streams prove your claim false. In most of these states, the "blue ribbon" trout streams are catch and release only and/or heavily regulated. The regs haven't made the fisheries go downhill - to the contrary, the regs have made these streams some of the best trout fisheries in the country, despite very heavy fishing pressure.

Comparing these streams with the California pay lakes is just silly. The pay lakes raise triploid fish in hatcheries up to 10 lbs or more, dump them into a little muddy pond, and feed them pellets every day until they get caught. That's no accomplishment. A lot of the pay lakes don't even support trout year-round: they dump the big hatchery trout in the winter, and switch to catfish when it's warm. It's like "high-fence" hunting a pen-raised elk in someone's 10-acre yard.

bd



Edited by Brian Dunigan (07/31/08 08:42 AM)

Top
Page 8 of 9 « First<56789>


Moderator:  RUGER, Unicam, CBU93, stretch, Bobby G, Cuttin Caller, Kimber45, Mrs.Unicam, Crappie Luck 
Hop to:
Top Posters
4105162
RUGER
86614
Deer Assassin
65010
BSK
60827
Crappie Luck
51376
spitndrum
Newest Members
bootsinsand, bigun714, clh200, tlwilliams, Forvols
13179 Registered Users
Who's Online
138 registered (String Music, Nealmeally, monsterbuck07, david k., memfuzz, swami, 13 invisible) and 135 anonymous users online.
Forum Stats
13179 Members
42 Forums
90995 Topics
1063357 Posts

Max Online: 788 @ 11/11/13 08:06 PM
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Forum Donations
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!

TN Burn Safe

Generated in 0.055 seconds in which 0.002 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Zlib compression enabled.