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#840990 - 07/28/08 12:01 AM The Mighty Caney
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

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There seems to be two hot topics regarding the Caney lately:

1) It needs better regs and more trophy fish.
2) The river is too crowded to fish.

Hmm.. I wonder what would happen if we had new regs, a slot, and trophy trout fighting each other for our flies and corn nibblets every trip... we'd have one hell-of-a crowded river thats what!

Not only would there be more pleasure floaters searching for treasure but you would have 10x more guides, "meathunters", and more people/fisherman period. Look how packed the river is now, with trophy regs one can only wonder what kind of crowds & "commercializing" this river would attract. I guess the point is that we cant have it both ways. This is a freakin "put and take" fishery people, enjoy it for what it is, and be thankful it's as good as it is.

From what Ive seen there are 3 groups of us

a)Those in the upper crust, the 100% C&R flyfishing and tournament elite, "Gimme gimme those trophies!" (Disclaimer: NOT TO OFFEND : this is a very small BUT outspoken group. ALOT of C&R guys are very good people who dont push their beliefs on anyone...)

b)Those on the bottom, "meateaters", "Fill that bucket till it overflows Jimbo!"

c)And finally, the mighty group in the middle. Those of us that fish with all gear, for all species of fish, and yes sometimes we eat all of them "Who the heck cares what they're doing, Im going to enjoy this God-given resource for another day..."

I should put this man's quote in my sig line: "big fish should be a suprise not an expectation." -Stalker

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#841028 - 07/28/08 04:59 AM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: madMax]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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No fishery that is capable of being a put, grow, and take fishery should be managed as put and take. It makes absolutely no sense to only cater to one group, when what drives TWRA is revenue from license sales.

You assume that the 100% C&R fly guys don't enjoy the resource. You assume that fly guys don't fish for other species, that is so wrong words can't describe it.

"big fish should be a surprise not an expectation." Why? Wouldn't it be great if a resource was managed in a way that maximized its potential and allowed anglers to catch above avg. trout.

Guess TWRA, should manage the deer herd for spikes and 4 pts. that way big deer are a surprise.

Same views that LUCRO expressed on the Clinch years ago, we see now where that got them. We now have a slot, and rumors drift around about those regs tightening.
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#841370 - 07/28/08 09:34 AM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: captain hook]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6319
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I'll have to agree with both of you. I remember using the argument with the TWR Commission that if they implemented new brown trout regulations, people wouldn't be bypassing the Caney to go fish GA, NC, KY, and AK anymore. To be honest, I din't even buy my own argument but I thought the TWRC might.

Well, now we're here. People are coming from afar to fish the Caney. They are spending their money here, just what we wanted, and it is sometimes shockingly crowded. "Be careful what you wish for" is starting to make sense to me.

Months ago when I was jousting with Tubs, I kept saying that he and others with his harvest mentality would decimate the fishery. The fishing would stink again, and people would stop coming. Again, I'm not even sure how much I believed my own argument because I knew deep down Tubs couldn't really hurt the fishery that much. But the hordes can. And they already have.

As far as I know, there is no answer to the crowding issue. "If you build it, they will come" is coming true. And my favorite Yogi Berra line, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded" is coming true too. Many of my friends and I have discussed that we can't bear the Caney on a weekend anymore.

But, yes, we can regulate and protect and make the fishing better. I know that many folks disagree with that mentality, and I don't know how to change or solve that. If the rivers are destined to be mediocre stocker catcheries, then so be it. All I'm saying is that there are plenty opportunities for folks to put and take with no regulation except a 7-trout creel. No size limit, no slot, no nothing. In fact, in the urban stocking program (usually called the food stamp program), folks are encouraged to kill trout because the trout will die anyway. The folks that don't care about quality fishing have tons of places to go to fill their creels.

So why should we "enjoy it for what it is" if it can be so much better? Why does it have to be strictly put and take? Why can't we have it all? Instead of having it catch and release like many folks want or catch and kill like many others want, why not a middle ground? The meathunters can fill their creels, and the trophy fishermen still have chances at some bigger fish. Those that think that is an elitist view are just plain wrong.

So why can't those of us with a different mentality have a few streams we can go to with a little bit more regulation? Unlike in the urban stocked streams, we'd like a better shot at a 14-inch fish, or even a 20-incher. The fishery has the potential to grow fish. Why not use that potential to make fishing a little better?

This site has visitors from all over the state, and the Caney dominates all trout discussion. Mark my words - If this keeps up, in a couple of years, nobody will mention the Caney much because it will be dead. It'll be highly regarded on the canoeing sites. Folks will just find another trout fishery to kill fish in.
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It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

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#841385 - 07/28/08 09:54 AM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41522
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Oh ity kills me to say this. But there is a lot of merit in both of the two early posts. You are both right. But you are only recognizing and arguing one facet. It is a bit like fixing an oil leak when the brakes don't work.
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#841588 - 07/28/08 11:25 AM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: bowriter]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 350
Loc: nashville, tn

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MaxD,

I think you left out one group....I will call them group F....they don't think the Caney can be any better and are the type of people who will always revert to the "why try" mentality.....very unAmerican if you ask me....I think this is bred out by our politically correct society and "gimme something I never earned mentaily" that will ruin this country if not checked....

The Caney Fork has tons of potential that is untapped and being ignored by those in the TWRA who continue to choose (a conscious act on thier part) to do nothing.....no action, period. The river has plummeted from its recent high about 16 months ago....far fewer large fish.....but still many....the reason over harvest of the quality fish...not trophies just good mid grade worth the trip fish....4-6 lb bass as a comparison....

I have never heard so many people whine for the status quo in my life.....Middle TN, especially the region around the Caney could benefit from some economic, yet sustainable, stimulus.....


Oh and Gil....stick to the carp.

And all you guys whinning about over crowding take a trip out to a well known western river and tell me about crowding.....


Edited by stillinscrubs (07/28/08 11:26 AM)

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#841665 - 07/28/08 11:56 AM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: madMax]
madMax
4 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 130
Loc: Middle TN

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I didnt mean for my point to be "Why try?" But more like.. Why cry? Why cry about how crowded the river is in one post, but push for quality regs that would in effect increase crowds in another? Dont get me wrong, Im all for better regs on the Caney, they would definitely improve the quality fish even more. They would also increase the quantity of people that visit the river everyday. So if you support creating an even better fishing destination for people throughout the region dont cry about the crowds and just enjoy it imo...
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#841673 - 07/28/08 12:02 PM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: stillinscrubs]
Unicam Administrator
Grumpaw
16 Point


Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 18939
Loc: Dallas, GA. & Cookeville, TN

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Changing this around a bit....what about the overall health of the river? I have seen more and more heavy grass in the Caney. Is this normal for a river that had a huge die off only a few years ago and a water level that rises and falls as much as it does? In the last 10 years we have gone from a few spots with grass/weeds in the water to much much more, the increas if you dont see it every day or every year is startling. As for the population of trophy trout....They are there. I have released a 6lb plus brown and released a 9 plus lb rainbow from that river. You should not catch them every time you go, but like hunting, persistence and patientce will pay off.
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#841773 - 07/28/08 01:13 PM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: Unicam]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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Two things:

1. If you're asking me to choose between a well-managed, but crowded river, and a river that sucks so bad that nobody wants to go there, I'd rather have a good fishing day on a crowded river. Yeah, the crowds stink, and I think large scale canoeing operations should be MANAGED just like the fishery is managed. And for the same reason: too much exploitation of either resource ruins the experience for everyone.

2. I take exception to the insinuation that fly fishers are all "upper crust" or can't see the middle of the road. I fly fish, but I like to keep a few fish for the table every once in a while too. I'm not the only one - I saw 3 or 4 fly fishers with stringers of trout at Betty's Island just yesterday. Heck, the very REASON we're advocating a slot is so that everyone can get a bit of what they want. Meat fishermen still get to take home 7 nice trout, and the trophy fish get protected.

In my opinion, people who argue that they won't tolerate any management for trophy trout are just as unreasonable as people who say the Caney should be 100 percent catch and release.

bd

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#841836 - 07/28/08 02:03 PM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: B.D.]
captain hook
10 Point


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 4340
Loc: Knoxville

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This idea that catching trophy sized fish should be a once in a lifetime occurrence is insane IMO. Sorry, but if I can go out and catch big azz fish every time I will do so and skip to and from the river \:D .

So should QDMer's stop so that the chance at a trophy deer should only happen once in a lifetime?
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#842033 - 07/28/08 03:27 PM Re: The Mighty Caney [Re: captain hook]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 41522
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Why has noone mentioned the fact that (as far as I know) more trout over 8# were caught out of CF in the last 12 months than any river I know of in TN ? (I know little about the catch on the Clinch.)

I agree, a trophy fish shouldn't be a once in a lifetime experience. For me and some others I know, just fishing the CF, it has been more frequent that once a month. My trophy trout catching, if you want to call it that, goes back a long ways. I have somewhere a picture of me with 9# brown and 5# rainbow I caught the same day in the late 70's. It was before I even had a beard.

The trophy fish are in that river right now. They are catchable. Even Tubs proved that. But how many would there have to be for fishermen who refuse to use the tackle that most often catch those fish to be happy?

No, this is not a rant against flyfishing. As I have stated a few times, I started with a flyrod, got pretty good with it. Many of my friends, even Gil, use the whip switch. Gil and I fished together one day and as I recall, he caught as many as I did. Mine were a tad larger. I don't have a thing against them and I don't keep any trout, so that isn't even in the mix. But if you are going to match the hatch, then use the right equipment and fish when the big fish are most catchable. There are plenty of them, more than you would ever dream.

I just haven't been shown that a slot limit would increase the survival rate on rainbows significantly. I'm not sure a study has even been done. Now eliminating rockfish from the Caney would dang sure jump the survival rate. \:\) And while we are at it, have you noticed the plethora of blue herrons?

But I will say this...totally unsubstantiated. Them there brookies should all be C&R. I love them pretty blue bullets.
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