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#839758 - 07/27/08 07:36 AM Okay. Let's Brainstorm
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
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How do you think floatcraft traffic should be regulated on the CF. And no nonsense about fishing regulations. This is a different topic. But here are some criteria we should keep in mind.

First of all, they have every bit as much right be there as fishermen do.

Secondly, this should be approached from a safety and environmental aspect, not a crowding of fishermen aspect. (see number one)
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#839763 - 07/27/08 07:49 AM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: bowriter]
stillinscrubs
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Registered: 08/16/07
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I'll get really specific with you.....

If it is a good regulation and you convince me of three things, (1) It is biologically and environmentally sound, (2) It benefits the entire sporting segment and (3) It is financially feasible, then I'm all for it.

Any person or service that uses the landings/boat ramps should pay in some way to maintain and upkeep these public access points. Anglers pay with licences, registered boat owners pay with registration fees....who isn't paying?

Scrubs

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#839765 - 07/27/08 07:52 AM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: stillinscrubs]
bowriter
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OMG!!!! We agree on something. That does it. I'm going to church. See y'all after while.
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#839794 - 07/27/08 08:17 AM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: bowriter]
Southpaw
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\:D
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#841802 - 07/28/08 01:41 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: Southpaw]
B.D.
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Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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1. Register canoes just like motorized craft. This solves the issue of paddlers impacting the resource but not paying a share to maintain it.

2. Anyone who wants to run a commercial canoe/kayak/tube rental operation has to have a permit to do so. The permit entitles the operation to run "x" number of trips on the river per day. There should be a cap on the number of permits available, so that the total number of trips by all commercial operations falls below whatever the maximum sustainable number per day is determined to be. Include fishing guides in this if you want.

3. Commercial operations should have identification clearly displayed somewhere on their watercraft - name and permit number. Warn commercial operators that if there are an excessive and disproportionate number of complaints against any individual operation, it could affect their permit. That way, commercial ops have an incentive to give their customers some rules about being courteous to others on the river, picking up their trash, etc.

bd

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#842056 - 07/28/08 03:36 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: ]
bowriter
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Well, I agree with Brian 100%. I Think Capt. Hook's discrimination against bait slingers, as he calls them is pure Horse Hockey. Reasoning: Those guys fees paid for the trout in the first place just as yours did. It is exactly that mindset that gives the flyrod and C&R fishermen a bad name.

But Brian is right on. To my way of thinking, the Commish should give that some serious consideration.
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#842174 - 07/28/08 04:18 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: bowriter]
rsimms
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Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 2706
Loc: Chattanooga, TN

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OK, at risk of destroying my "nice guy" reputation, I'm going to put on my "bad guy hat" (a.k.a. bowriter hat) and explain why I don't believe any effort at so-called regulation can, or should, work.

Public waterway means just that... just because they're making money off the Caney, and interfering with our fishing, why should they be charged extra to enjoy it?

They shouldn't.

They are not harming the resource anymore, and perhaps less, than fishermen.

The license argument doesn't hold water. Maybe if they are all strictly TWRA-owned access ramps... but our fishing license dollars don't support Corps, TVA or other ramps or access points. And even if they are TWRA-owned ramp(s), no way can TWRA legally "discriminate" about who can, or can't, use their ramps.

I can't argue the "canoe registration." I've never understood why you have to register a vessel that is under sail power, but not paddle power. BUT, that isn't strictly a Caney Fork issue. That's a statewide issue.

Fishing guides have been mentioned.... I think it would be grossly unfair to regulate canoe liveries anywhere and not guides (or other commercial operators). On the Caney specifically, fishing guides are making money and probably more directly impacting the fishery far more than the canoers. (Note I said "fishery," not "fishermen.") But if you do that on the Caney, why not Hiwassee, or the Clinch, or the Buffalo or the Obey?

What precedent would a canoe livery tax set across the state to other Canoe or Raft rental places on Buffalo, Sequatchie, Hiwassee, Clinch? Or even a boat dock on Kentucky Lake that rents fishing boats, or even worse, jet skiis? How could anyone legally justify an extra tax/charge for canoe liveries on the Caney without impacting dozens and dozens of other similar operations all across the state?

Can't be done.

I can certainly understand and sympathize with the pain and aggravation of watching your favorite fishing haunt overrun with "multi-use" users. But the fact is, there is no way to focus any such regulatory effort strictly on the Caney Fork without have far-reaching impact all across the state.

If that's the goal... okay, it's worthy of discussion. I don't think we need, or should, do that.

But to try and come up with a reason why the Caney Fork should be treated differently than all the other Tennessee waterways is an exercise in futility.

Although chances are there are armies of lawyers with pocketfuls of billable hours out there that would love for someone to try.



OK, here's the target. Fire away.
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#842181 - 07/28/08 04:23 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: rsimms]
bowriter
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I hate it when people make sense. Richard, there are some arguable points but the argument is pretty weak. Mostly it would be applied to numerical impact. Whateverinell that is.

Good post.
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#842276 - 07/28/08 05:47 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: rsimms]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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Richard, I think the distinction on the Caney is simple. The Caney is facing a crowding issue that isn't present (yet?) on the other rivers you discuss. The whole purpose of the permitting is to get a grip on the exploding usage issues so that one group (commercial paddlers) doesn't overwhelm the other groups who want to use the resource.

If crowding becomes an issue on those other rivers in the same way, then yeah, maybe a similar approach should be used. If crowding's not an issue, there's no need to apply it where it's not needed simply because the Caney sets some sort of "precedent."

It's okay, legally and ethically, to "discriminate" between two rivers if the circumstances on the two are different.

We're not breaking entirely new ground here anyway. Overcrowding became an issue on the Ocoee due to the proliferation of commercial rafting businesses, and a similar permitting requirement was started. It has worked well and has prevented the Ocoee from becoming a circus. It's time to start thinking about doing something similar on the Caney, for similar reasons.

bd

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#842277 - 07/28/08 05:47 PM Re: Okay. Let's Brainstorm [Re: bowriter]
LA man
18 Point


Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 20592
Loc: spencer, tn/houma, la.

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good points on both sides, but i agree more with rsimms. sorry guys
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