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#838807 - 07/26/08 09:17 AM My Rant for Today...
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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The Compleate Angler----Revisited

I read this in an article. “When the fish jumps, you bow to it, honor it.” probably I have never read a more horsehite statement. Of course that is a flyfisherman’s term. The rest of us jack that sucker’s jaw and get him back in the water.

Why open this thread with that statement? To show the diversity or divergence that exactly parallels the crossbow/vertical bow controversy. Only now it is in fishing. I, for one, am pretty dam tired of it.

Those on this forum who really know me, know I don’t give a fart in the wind about how you fish. As long as it is legal and you enjoy it, I am in your corner. But recently an ugly head has been raised and I for one, dam sure don’t like it. This is not about size limits or slot limits or any of that.

The veteran fly guys on here, the really good ones, never once, ever demean any other means of fishing. Why should they? They do what they do and they do it well. Not one time have I ever heard Gil or Brian or some others badmouth a bait fisherman or any kind of fisherman. But there are some that do...as if fishing with bait is tantamount to having sex with your sister. Well let me tell you right now. I have seen your sister.

I’ll say right up front. I almost never fish with live bait and never for trout. But I sure have no problem with those that do and if it strikes me just right, I’ll dang sure do it. Just as I don’t keep trout, regardless of the size. But if I want to, I will.

This all knowing, all seeing superiority complex that is starting to rear its’ head on this forum, just flat pisses me off. I have tried, through humor and sarcasm tried to steer some of the threads away from a pissing contests. I guess that is over some heads.

Guys/gals we are all fisherpersons. Not one single one of us has any more right or privilege than another. We are angling equals. Do you get that? We are all equal in the eyes of pescado. Not a single one of us deserves any more or less consideration that any other legal fisherman.

Now you can bow and honor a jumping fish if you want to. I’m going to jack that sucker’s jaw.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#838825 - 07/26/08 09:28 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
mike243
16 Point


Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 12256
Loc: east tn

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great post,mike243
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prayers sent for our friends in need every day

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#838875 - 07/26/08 10:17 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: mike243]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Amen, brudda. Very well spoken. Lately, I've sort of felt like taking a shower after reading this forum.

I always say this and I mean it, but I've been known to stray when emotions get high - Within the law, we should do what makes us happy. However that looks in the hunting and fishing world. Don't get me wrong - I'm not going to hunt with folks that blast turkeys off the roost and brag about their prowess. But it's not my business to bash them either. I can voice my opinion, but it shouldn't get personal or mean.

Two days ago, I fished with a buzzbait. Today will be a fly. Aug. 1 -10 will be cut and live bait. It's all fishing. All the same.

I've lost more fish (mostly tarpon) by bowing to them than I'll admit. Even in fly fishing, cross their eyes and ski them across the surface, I say.

I will still sex up most anybody's sister. Versatile in fishing and in luv. \:D
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#838901 - 07/26/08 10:51 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: gil1]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10449
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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Well stated, John, and very much needed.
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Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#838967 - 07/26/08 12:35 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11888
Loc: Murfreesboro,TN/Decaturville, ...

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Good stuff.

And the sister comment is, was, and forever shall be priceless.

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#838969 - 07/26/08 12:39 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10449
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: tribeless
People work too dam much to enjoy fishing nowadays. Next time you're on the water and come up with a new idea or regulation that makes fishing better, go back to work. Put that energy to good use. Fishing's fine as it is.


I totally disagree with your statement. If a regulation can make fishing better, use your energy to put it in effect. The fishing we have today is a result of the tweaking of regulations over the years.
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#838970 - 07/26/08 12:40 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 823
Loc: Cookeville

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Fishin is fishin. The anticipation of catchin a big fish, the serenity of bein out there and the rush of adrenaline when a fish strikes is what it's all about, don't matter how you got there.
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#838974 - 07/26/08 12:52 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bigluresonly]
trealtree
16 Point


Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 10828
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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Good post John.
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There is only 1 Absolute.

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#839001 - 07/26/08 02:00 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: trealtree]
bowriter
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Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I have to admit, I have worked pretty hard to get a regulation or two passed in my time. If it is a good regulation and you convince me of three things, (1) It is biologically and environmentally sound, (2) It benefits the entire sporting segment and (3) It is financially feasible...

I'll jump on that sucker like Gil on a carp. But I will not bandwagon something just because somebody says, "Hey, wouldn't this be neat?"

But I'll tell you what I would support. I'd support some regulation of commercial operations on the CF. And yes, that includes guides.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#839011 - 07/26/08 02:12 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
Crosshairy
10 Point


Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2701
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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I agree.

And I must admit that I had to look up the word "pescado"...

Makes me wonder whether you have a stream of consciousness like that. It's hard for us mere mortals to follow.
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I'm hungry and tired. Don't poke my belly.

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#839024 - 07/26/08 02:36 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: Crosshairy]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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It is the stream of unconciousness. Comes from being a coma for eight days. \:\)

But here is something that almost nobody on ths or any forum ever considers:

No matter how good a regulation may be, at some point, it must be enforceable. Somewhere along the line, somebody has to be able to say, "Here's your ticket."

In terms of enforcement, the CF is a mindboggler. Sure the access and gravel bars can be checked, should be checked. But the task of actually "handling" that river is a sumtich.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#839126 - 07/26/08 05:06 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
scn
16 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 10449
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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I got your point-just don't agree with it.
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#839391 - 07/26/08 08:43 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
7mm08
12 Point


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 5211
Loc: In a river hopefully!

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I for one am going to the Clinch tomorrow AM and hope to whale on a few bigger than lately fish (due solely on the new regulations)! Thanks TWRA.

Now on another note. Does someone know the TWRA Poachers telephone # ?

Number two...since we have limited enforcement, can signs be purchased through TWRA by an individual and placed along access points stating new rule changes(offsetting TWRA costs, better spent on hiring more enforcement). Even if we deter 20%, that's only 60% of those still breaking the law.............Oh you thought this smart guy made a mistake? No, that's to account for 20% of the ignorant morons that can't read....either English or Spanish!

PS..I slung me some bait during crappie season. Am I off the list of elitest C&R snobs now?

PSS..If I catch saltwater trout on the fly, or redfish, and they are in the slot, they are going to die, filleted, and vacuumed sealed before nightfall. Anyone for blackened redfish with a crab bisque soup for an appetizer?



Edited by 7mm08 (07/26/08 08:46 PM)
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I hunt and fish not for the thrill of the kill, but for the thrill of the grill!!

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#839398 - 07/26/08 08:54 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
onerarebreed
Spike


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Tn

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Men, if you don't mind me joining in i would like to expound.I am not trying to bash our Game wardens,they have a tough job, but i have been hunting and fishing for most of my 42 years.Our recources are just that to the government, A recource.I have not seen our deer heard improve the way it could, our fisheries are not what they used to be when my dad used to go with my grandpa and bring home a nice stringer of crappie or walleye.IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.It cant be up to the government or more regs whether it is fishing or hunting.You and I as responsible sportsmen have to take it upon ourselves and lead by example.
If people go fishing or hunting and they come back whith nothing the may get discouraged and not buy that license,that trout stamp,or that deer tag.That means no taxes on firearmas ,ammo,that gas to get there and many other things.See to the powers at be its all about the money.Lawmakers only care about the money.It is ultimatley up to the individuals.not the government and more regs.Sure i will agree some regs have to be in place.But you will never regulate morality or what is a successful hunting or fishing trip to different people.
Ok thanks for getting me fired up!!
Im sorry Guys.
_________________________
Life is a garden.Dig it
Countryfied and Satisfied and I aint gonna change my ways.

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#839461 - 07/26/08 09:39 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
shorefisherman
6 Point


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 634
Loc: West SSiiide Putnam Co.

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 Originally Posted By: captain hook
Would you want such even on fly-fishing guides who are 100% C&R or just bait slinger guides who kill what their clients catch?



Man capthk...thats a BOLD STATEMENT...You are assuming this right!!!
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Down in a hollor....son

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#839521 - 07/26/08 10:08 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
moondawg
16 Point


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 19460
Loc: Millington, TN

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Good post, Bowriter. I feel the same way.
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Don't look down, BE down!--Turkeyburd (Prevous 2012)

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#839527 - 07/26/08 10:13 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: trealtree]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 823
Loc: Cookeville

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 Originally Posted By: trealtree
Good post John.


i agree, wait, who is John?

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#839570 - 07/26/08 10:55 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bigluresonly]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: bigluresonly
 Originally Posted By: trealtree
Good post John.


i agree, wait, who is John?

Bowriter is John Sloan - famous outdoor writer, TV personality, rodeo champion, and sunburned nipples survivor.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#839582 - 07/26/08 11:11 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bigluresonly]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 823
Loc: Cookeville

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ok

Edited by bigluresonly (07/27/08 07:04 AM)

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#839588 - 07/26/08 11:22 PM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: gil1]
bigluresonly
6 Point


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 823
Loc: Cookeville

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 Originally Posted By: gil1
 Originally Posted By: bigluresonly
 Originally Posted By: trealtree
Good post John.


i agree, wait, who is John?

Bowriter is John Sloan - famous outdoor writer, TV personality, rodeo champion, and sunburned nipples survivor.


Funny how you dont remember things- writer, TV, rodeo, no clue. Burnt nips and I know exactly what you are talkin bout!

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#839627 - 07/27/08 03:48 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bigluresonly]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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I am sorry I missed this early on....I was out fishing...post to follow.

Nice political statement BW....I still think you are full of it and using the ignorance of some as your weapon of choice....again.

You bow to big fish to keep them from breaking the line on a jump......saltwater fish can do this and some freashwater if you are using very small line. Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon are two that come to mind.....

Next time you are spin fishing with 40# test and hook a tarpon with a crab try jerking his jaw down and see how far that gets you. I have done both...jerking gets you a lost fish....bowing gets you a fish picture.....just leave the fish in the water in florida.

World famous writer......lol....

You have alterior motives....always.

Sound biological evidence.....what would that consist of? The TWRA of current thinks like you....hope that changes so the resource is managed for everyone not just those who want to take all they can from it......

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#839639 - 07/27/08 04:39 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Capt. Because you can't regulate one segment of commercialism without regulating all segments. It has nothing to do with flyfishing, bait fishing or killing fish. It has to do with licensing. The canoers and kayakers don't hurt the fish at all. But you can't license and control them and not license everyone who makes money on the river.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#839641 - 07/27/08 04:59 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter

But here is something that almost nobody on ths or any forum ever considers:

No matter how good a regulation may be, at some point, it must be enforceable. Somewhere along the line, somebody has to be able to say, "Here's your ticket."

In terms of enforcement, the CF is a mindboggler. Sure the access and gravel bars can be checked, should be checked. But the task of actually "handling" that river is a sumtich.


WEAK....it is considered all the time.

There are regulations for deer in this state that take an hour or more to figure out.....poaching still happens.....nobody says take away all the regulations because somebody poached...well I am sure you have said it....but nobody who cares about the resource.

A slot limit on the Caney will be followed by 90+% of the people out there. You can't do everything based upon the 10% of people who are classless and clueless.....that leads to political correctness.....



Edited by stillinscrubs (07/27/08 06:30 AM)

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#839647 - 07/27/08 05:18 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: stillinscrubs]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Capt. Here is what I was getting at. I was not talking in terms of fishing regulations. I was thinking in terms of regulations that would limit the number of commercial boats allowed on the river. I know it is done on many rivers out west and it is done by a permit system by which a float or raft operator must be licensed and is limited to how many crafts he can have on the water.

As new businesses open up, (by the way, what in the heck is Bettys Canoe Rental?)the number of float craft on the Caney increases. But if each operator was limited to X number of craft and there was a maximum number of rental craft allowed on the river, that might help to ease the problem. It is a common practice on many Canadian lakes to limit the number of boats that can be on the lake. I learned that the expensive way.

But it would seem unfair to me, for craft rental operations to be licensed and commercial guides not be. Both make money from the river. Now here is the problem.

The licensing would be easy to enforce. But how do you enforce compliance? I have long been a proponent of licesning or registering all water craft because they all use the water regardless of motor driven or not.

I was in no way speaking of regulations regarding fishing, just commercialism. However, that being said. I have no problem with whatever fishing regulations may be enacted so long as they meet the criteria I outlined in another thread. But it is important to keep the two different types of regulations seperate in terms of thought because they are two seperate issues.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#839662 - 07/27/08 05:58 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter

I was in no way speaking of regulations regarding fishing, just commercialism. However, that being said. I have no problem with whatever fishing regulations may be enacted so long as they meet the criteria I outlined in another thread. But it is important to keep the two different types of regulations seperate in terms of thought because they are two seperate issues.


 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I have to admit, I have worked pretty hard to get a regulation or two passed in my time. If it is a good regulation and you convince me of three things, (1) It is biologically and environmentally sound, (2) It benefits the entire sporting segment and (3) It is financially feasible...


(1) What in your mind is biologically and environmentally sound? With respect to the Caney Fork and trout?

(2) I don't think you can have a regulation that benefits the entiresporting segment. For example crappie, creel limits were enacted recently...the intent I assume was to cut down on over harvest so that there are fish for everyone to catch, some people want to keep unlimited numbers and could care less about everyone else, they want to fill the freezer... Could you explain what you mean?

(3) What are your personal criteria for this?


Edited by stillinscrubs (07/27/08 06:01 AM)

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#839751 - 07/27/08 07:20 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Capt. I never said limit the guides. What I am saying is simply this: If you derive a monetary benefit from the river, i.e. through guiding or water craft rental, you should have a license or pay some sort of fee. But through that process, the number of watercraft rentals could be controlled. The guides would in no be affected. They just have to buy an annual license to operate on that water.

There would be no restriction on the number of guides. But when a float craft operator gets licensed, he would be allocated X number of craft. Naturally, the license fee would not be the same.

See, look at it this way. I have to register my little float boat. It takes up no more water than a canoe and goes no faster. So why shouldn't a canoe be registered?
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#841106 - 07/28/08 06:33 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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What’s all the hub bub about anyway. If the USCOE doesn’t kill the Caney in the next few years all the loose lips and waaay over inflated egos around here are going to ruin the river in a short time anyway. I remember when most of youns were big Bass fishermen. Now you proclaim you’ve been fishing the Caney for thirty years and are the Caney Fork king... Funny I never saw you all on the river two three or even five years ago,,,the river was quiet… Get over yourselves and shut up about the river. That’s what will be good for the river right there.

Johnny come latelys...

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#841133 - 07/28/08 07:03 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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LMAO- Hey Bob, I've never seen you on the Caney. You must have your rivers confused. Perhaps you were on Hickman Creek and just thought it was the Caney. \:\)
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#841139 - 07/28/08 07:05 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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Really? Have you fished the Cumberland below Traces? Burkesville? How about McMillian's Landing? All used to be great Trout water. Now,,, pond water. Give em a few more years and they’ll get the rest of that once great river. The CH dam is under the same type construction as we type.

BTW with levels where they are now something as simple as a flood or drought could kill either river. Only so much cold water to go around.


You sure took offense to the getting over ones self part of my post…

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#841219 - 07/28/08 07:54 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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“Spent more time on the Cumberland then most”
Well,, I didn’t see that coming…


What??? Mother nature sat back for over THIRTY YEARS and let the dam get in such bad condition that it was in danger of collapse? I guess mother nature botched an attempt to stop seepage in 1969, 1970, and 1975? Mother nature didn’t kill the lower river, USCOE did and they came really close to getting it all. The problem has nothing to do with the earth moving. It’s about seepage from the karst foundation they built both dams on… It’s lack of better management and maintenance. But mostly, like everything else today, it’s about MONEY.

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#841281 - 07/28/08 08:28 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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Well lets see, so far you’ve corrected my spelling of a word that doesn’t exist and demeaned me for using it. You’ve also called me a bait chunker? And now you’re suggesting I’m one of the poor waaay lower income folks who got washed out of their homes by a REAL and somewhat sudden Mother Nature event that BTW was caused by levees breaking. And ahhh,,,, guess who built and maintained those levees???

You really do seem like a nice feller though.

I've derailed this thread my job is done here.

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#841379 - 07/28/08 09:51 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bob]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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No, Bob, you haven't derailed and thing. But if that is your job, I am suggesting to the moderators you be banned.

Note to Mods: Since this person openly admits his puprpose was to derail a thread, I suggest this is not a contributing member but a useless piece of floatsam and should be banned.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

In the meantime, I have had some excellent suggestion from posters re an article I am working on. I am now looking for intteligent, cohesive input as to just what the problems are, how they came about and how they can be corrected. Bait lobbers, fly flingers and all in between are welcome to contribute. Bob, you can go back to pikin poke.
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#841405 - 07/28/08 10:02 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
I definitely think you should use the Yogi Berra line.
_________________________
It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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#841416 - 07/28/08 10:08 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: gil1]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I would but he is still alive. He might sue me \:\)
_________________________

Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#841435 - 07/28/08 10:14 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: bowriter]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

Offline
“piece of floatsam”

That’s the best you can come up with? Award winning writer my a__.

My suggestion to this thread was simply for folks to shut about the river. You all started the name calling and third grade antics.

BTW, yo moma….

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#841563 - 07/28/08 11:14 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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What’s not sensible and logical about shutting up about a certain river where folks are complaining about overcrowding and over harvest?

“ANd "yo moma"???????? Are we back in 6th grade? Moma is actually spelled Momma”

I guess your gonna let the Yo part slide mr grammer police? BTW no need to cap the N in And.

I should also note that both AND & BUT is a conjunction meant to join concepts in a proper sentence. They are also prepositions meant to modify their subject within the sentence, not at the beginning or finish.

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#841584 - 07/28/08 11:23 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: ]
MFBAB
10 Point


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 2997
Loc: Memphis, TN

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Bob, I was thinking about going up to the Caney and fishing for the first time this w/end, can I have permission please? Just kidding, couldn't resist.

PS-In reference to a post Gil made in another thread, I do have a lifetime sportsman license so I promise to try and take a limit of jet skiers during the trip.
_________________________
Missed it by that much....

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#841610 - 07/28/08 11:34 AM Re: My Rant for Today... [Re: MFBAB]
bob
4 Point


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 116
Loc: tn

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I have alot to add to this topic but it will only create more talk about a river that desperately needs a rest more then ANYTHING.

BTW Hook, I'm just pullin your chain so don't get too wound up. It's just the usual bulletin board talk BS. A board of experts (including myself) all with differing opinions. We'd get along fine in a boat together I promise.

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