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#837881 - 07/25/08 02:34 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: onerarebreed]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42227
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Onerare- No rain on the river. Rain like a sonagun when we left Lebanon at 4:30. Not a drop on the big ditch. Rained all the way home.

but I agree. I'm tired of talking about it, too. I'm going to go kill some carp.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#837892 - 07/25/08 02:50 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: bowriter]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42227
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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Okay. I can't stand it. One last time. GIL: "BW - I know you're making a point, but surely you aren't brain dead. If you stop stocking, the fish will eventually die out."

Then why in the he11 should we have a size limit? They are all going to die. Dead is pretty permanent. What we need to lobby for is the stocking of 10# fish.

(Gil- I know what you are saying. I just couldn't resist.)

But the money to stock those fish come from all the fishermen. If we say to one group, the pargest group, you can't do that. Then it is fair for them to say to the rest of us, then quit spending our money here.

Now, can someone define for me just what is considered Betty's Island? I know it is not at the takeout point. But what do y'all call Betty's Island?
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#837914 - 07/25/08 03:07 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: onerarebreed]
B.D.
8 Point


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: Hendersonville TN

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 Originally Posted By: onerarebreed
and some of these fish do reproduce i have caught fingerlings in my minnow traps in the spring during high water perods approximately three quaters of a mile away from where it empties into the river.


TWRA stocks fingerlings from time to time, so catching fingerlings doesn't prove anything. Typically, these fingerlings are 3-4 inches long.

The thing that makes me skeptical about reproduction is that nobody EVER catches a little 2-inch rainbow or brown trout parr in the Caney. On wild streams, those tiny little trout will take a fly every once in a while - I have caught them in the Smokies and in Colorado. But in the Caney, I never see fish below the smallest stocked size.

If there is any reproduction, it's very rare, and it's only maybe a handful of trout a year.

A slot limit is only about increasing the abundance of trophy trout in the river. A slot still lets the bait guys keep plenty - anyone who complains about a stringer of seven 15 1/2" trout won't be happy, no matter what. However, it also protects the fish that have shown the most potential to survive and grow, so that the trophy fishery is optimized.

Personally, I see it as the fairest way to give everyone what they want - people who want fish to eat can keep plenty for the table, and people who are only interested in a trophy get a better shot at one.

bd

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#838166 - 07/25/08 06:09 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2272
Loc: Knoxville

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Wow. So correct me if I'm wrong: You're stating that TWRA and TTU's Phil Bettoli are liars when it comes to the Clinch fishery?

Tell me exacly how you measure spawning sucess and recruitment?

Also why their conclusions are false. You could save the fishery and save fisherman valueable dollars by your methodology/biological assessment.

Thanks.

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#838206 - 07/25/08 06:42 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
ewc
8 Point


Registered: 02/01/02
Posts: 2272
Loc: Knoxville

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That's a strong accusation againt Bettoli - a well-respected fisheries biologist.

As far as a few fry - that's meaningless in terms of a fishery. We stocked 5500 LMB fry in Norris and none were recruited to the fishery. TWRA stocks thousands of walleye fry each year in NR - any idea what their survival rate is?

If their conclusions are false and Bettoli is a fraud, how come we have not seen his removal and a TWRA appology / statement?

Quit pretending to be a fishery mgr/biolgist and go back to cutting your head off in pictures. You're much better at photography, Phil.


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#838236 - 07/25/08 06:58 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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 Originally Posted By: captain hook

I love this forced upon me mentality. Guess the dang gov't shouldn't force us to not murder or steal as well.


The sad thing is that the majority of the people who maintain that mentality are being proped up by the tax payers because they can't take care of themselves (ie welfare)......

Same mentality in the housing projects of some big cities. Don't tell me what to do, I don't believe in laws, where's my fish (food stamps), you owe me....pick a reason.

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#838306 - 07/25/08 07:46 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: stillinscrubs]
onerarebreed
Spike


Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Tn

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Dang look where this discussion has gone.I leave for a few hours to fish put up butter beans and can 24qrts of tomates and this has turned into a full blown political discussion.Blowsm my mind.By the way is anyone catching any hybrid stripe near the dam.i have caught quiet a few lately but none that are legal.
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Countryfied and Satisfied and I aint gonna change my ways.

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#838412 - 07/25/08 08:57 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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Didn't Betolli say that there was no spawning in the SH also? Or am I mistaken?
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#838552 - 07/25/08 10:26 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: ]
stillinscrubs
4 Point


Registered: 08/16/07
Posts: 351
Loc: nashville, tn

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I sure wish the TWRA would post that admonission up somewhere (like the website)because saying it at a meeting that few people are at has much less impact....too many people are still going by that yahoos (Betolli's) BS. BW is one of the big BS eaters, right GL, CH, BD, and 7M?

SS

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#838596 - 07/25/08 11:09 PM Re: I'm taking a poll on Caney Size Regs [Re: stillinscrubs]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6349
Loc: Nashville, TN

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I like Betolli, although I don't know him well. I had heard before I had met him that he said the SoHo had zero natural reproduction (obviously not true). I can't personally what he said.

I did hear him say that there is no natural reproduction on the Caney (I personally don't know for sure if that's true or not). What I got from him during a fin clipping and a couple of calls is that he is a very pessimistic guy.

Another very knowledgeable guy told me that Betolli doesn't want there to to be natural reproduction, and so he lets his personal desires get in the way of science. Sort of hard to believe. I mean, why would he do that?

Betolli (and TN Tech) carries a lot of weight as a scientist around the people I know. His studies have been accepted as valuable by TWRa in making decisions as far as I know. But the SoHo, Clinch, and Caney stories are unsettling to say the least.

Not trying to stir it up, but seriously, the fact that Tubs was allowed to be in the fisheries program there was unsettling. Did they teach him all that bogus stuff?

Okay, ranting late at night now, but just thinking out loud.
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It is not the killing ...; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport.

Dr. Saxton Pope

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