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#799137 - 06/27/08 02:38 PM ? for reloaders - over max charges
rvs9
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Registered: 08/23/02
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Just wondering for those of you SAFELY load past the maximum -

How many grains past the max do you start to see over-pressure signs? I know this can vary with all the factors present, just curious if it is 2 grains on average, 5 grains on average, etc..
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#799434 - 06/27/08 06:27 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
Whelen Man
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 03/12/99
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Loc: Athens, TN, USA

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I've had loads show pressure before the max load and had to pull bullets. Each combination is a rule to itself with different powder lots, primers, brass, rifles, and chambers. All need to be worked up. Currently out of all the rifles I tinker with I've only got one load that I use regularly that's above the book max, but I've seen that load in older lists or I wouldn't be using even it still. If I want more speed I get a bigger cartridge. My face is ugly enough already.
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#799527 - 06/27/08 08:14 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: Whelen Man]
cdw338
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Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 1386
Loc: Ky Lake Paris Tn

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I am in the same boat with Whelen Man. I only have one load that
I now use that use to be max and now is above max. This load is
used on a 44 Ruger redhawk, strong gun.

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#799537 - 06/27/08 08:20 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: cdw338]
vonb
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Registered: 12/01/05
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Why load over max? Game/targets won't know the difference. Find the most accurate node with the best speed that is under max and stop there. Most factory chambers aren't going to match the published velocities.
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#799750 - 06/27/08 10:19 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: ]
rvs9
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Registered: 08/23/02
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Here's the deal. Bought some Nosler AB's for the 257roy. Nosler reloading manual max load for the powder is 64 grains. Many of you know weatherby rifles have much more freebore relative to other rifles to reduce pressure. Using the Nosler specified COL of 3.25"

My last 3 powder charges working from the min were 63.5, 64.0, and 64.5 (curiosity got the better of me!!!!)

My groups at 100 yards were 1.13, .94, and .44 inches. As you can see, my best group came at .5 grains over max. I'd like to go maybe .5 grains more to see what happens. Just don't want a bolt receiver for grillz!
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#800080 - 06/28/08 11:02 AM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
megalomaniac
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Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 5093
Loc: Mississippi

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Sure, you can continue working up... in a well made modern firearm, you will get damage to the brass well before the gun is damaged. But the pressure curve is nowhere near linear when you get toward 'max pressures'... what that means is just a little variation when near the max can often cause a large pressure spike resulting in a frozen bolt...

Here's a situation which could be VERY realistic... you work up your loads safely to 2 grains over max... just a little flattening of the primers, no big deal you think. Gun shoots great, 1/3 MOA. All is well with the world. Time for deer season, you load your gun, and hunt on an unusually warm November day in the 70's with direct sun on your gun. You forget that now due to the direct sunlight, your bullets have heated up to the high 80's... The buck of a lifetime walks out, you take aim and blam- but you miss! How could that have happened you think and you start to cycle the bolt and find out that it's frozen. The buck gives you the finger and runs off.

That's the problem with loading hunting cartridges on the redline. No room for error.

My 300 RUM shoots lights out around 2 grains under max at 55 degrees. Take the same rounds and shoot them at 80 degrees and the primers are flattened and the pockets are loose, rendering the brass useless to reload safely. For me, I know that I've got to keep the ammo cool or I could have a problem. Therefore, I can't even tote that gun if it's over 65 degrees that hunting day.

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#800757 - 06/28/08 10:30 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
skynimrod
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Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Bellevue Tn

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Depends on what max is for Your Setup/Workup.
You would be surprised on how the newer books are on conservative side on the max loads, compared to the older books I have.
Many of my older books, my old Speer #7 for example is really HOT. I usually work up to know My max for that combo and see what is most Accurate. I used to run pretty hot(over Book) with my 7mm mag first year production 26" Browning A-bolt stainless stalker with 150 gr Nosler BT with H-870. I could hit pop/coke can sized dynamite at 750 yds with that combo.

I try to find the best accuracy with a modest amount of powder if I can on most of my reloading

Always work up when you change any of your components, and if your are over book by say 2-4 gr I would work up again with every new batch of powder.
Not much room for error!
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#800763 - 06/28/08 10:34 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: skynimrod]
.444 Marlin
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I usually start with the max load and work down instead of the other way around.
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#800792 - 06/28/08 10:57 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: .444 Marlin]
skynimrod
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 Originally Posted By: .444 Marlin
I usually start with the max load and work down instead of the other way around.


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Use it willfully & be aware of it from others!

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#801114 - 06/29/08 09:54 AM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: ]
rvs9
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Registered: 08/23/02
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Some good points and definitely a few things to think about. I believe that I'll work up to the max again starting a couple of grains below it. See if the groups are there again and they start to tighten on the heavier charges.
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#801384 - 06/29/08 04:10 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
skynimrod
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Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Bellevue Tn

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 Originally Posted By: rvs9
Here's the deal. Bought some Nosler AB's for the 257roy. Nosler reloading manual max load for the powder is 64 grains. Many of you know weatherby rifles have much more freebore relative to other rifles to reduce pressure. Using the Nosler specified COL of 3.25"

My last 3 powder charges working from the min were 63.5, 64.0, and 64.5 (curiosity got the better of me!!!!)

My groups at 100 yards were 1.13, .94, and .44 inches. As you can see, my best group came at .5 grains over max. I'd like to go maybe .5 grains more to see what happens. Just don't want a bolt receiver for grillz!


If what you are loading is the 257 wb mag imr 4350 100 gr
my Speer #8 1970 list 66 grains max at mv 3616 for the IMR 4350
Custom Mauser 26" barrel 1-10 twist, western case, cci 200,250 primers
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#801393 - 06/29/08 04:20 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: ]
skynimrod
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Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Bellevue Tn

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 Originally Posted By: DEER ASSASSIN
i agree temp plays a role
that is why i work speed load up in 90 + temps

cold rag in ice to cool barrel




I work up this time of year also because of high temps and pressure great point.
I'm working with the Retumbo on my 270 wsm right now.
I think I my have found something.
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#801610 - 06/29/08 08:24 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: skynimrod]
megalomaniac
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Registered: 10/28/05
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Not trying to hijack the thread...

But what do you guys do when working up loads at 90 degrees when you hunt and it's below freezing? Sure, 100-150 fps and different groupings won't mean squat out to 300 yards, but for some of my ranges hunting it could be devastating.

It's for that reason, I do load development as close as possible to temps I expect to actually hunt in. I can't afford any surprises past 500 yards.

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#802330 - 06/30/08 08:53 AM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
rvs9
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I have the latest Nosler manual. 110 AB is 64 grains of IMR 4350. I always go a week or so before hunting with a gun and shoot it, whether I am using reloads or factory ammo. Just to be sure!!!
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#802352 - 06/30/08 09:10 AM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: megalomaniac]
skynimrod
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Registered: 11/10/06
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 Originally Posted By: megalomaniac
Not trying to hijack the thread...

But what do you guys do when working up loads at 90 degrees when you hunt and it's below freezing? Sure, 100-150 fps and different groupings won't mean squat out to 300 yards, but for some of my ranges hunting it could be devastating.

It's for that reason, I do load development as close as possible to temps I expect to actually hunt in. I can't afford any surprises past 500 yards.


I like to work up in hot temps to know my true max charge. After I settle in on what I like I shoot and shoot in all temps. I believe that (especially) when I'm shooting say 3200, 3300 fps their is not that much diff for hunting purposes when I dial it in in the fall.
I'm a hunter not a bench rest shooter, and to tell you the truth I have never used a crony, with practice and my reloading books I will pretty much know where my gun shoots at different yardages.
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Manipulation is the KEY!
Use it willfully & be aware of it from others!

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#802434 - 06/30/08 09:58 AM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: skynimrod]
.444 Marlin
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Registered: 08/10/02
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Loc: Benton, Polk Co. Tenn.

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RVS9, you have heard about my handloads....and Im still alive so that should be a clear enough answer
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#802786 - 06/30/08 01:35 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: .444 Marlin]
rvs9
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Registered: 08/23/02
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444 - the reload gods must be with you the second you pop the top on a jug of powder! Just be sure that you wear a welding helmet when you go shoot.
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#803367 - 06/30/08 09:40 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: rvs9]
.444 Marlin
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Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 15447
Loc: Benton, Polk Co. Tenn.

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That one time I mixed powder (on accident), I went ahead and loaded a few rounds and the gun really really liked that load. Im talkin 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100yd all day long.
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Spike bucks come with their own meat skewers.


Alright, I'm here now who wants my autograph??

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#803372 - 06/30/08 09:41 PM Re: ? for reloaders - over max charges [Re: .444 Marlin]
.444 Marlin
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Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 15447
Loc: Benton, Polk Co. Tenn.

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Im not sayin I would mix it again, that was a mistake because of me not paying attention to what I was doing.
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Spike bucks come with their own meat skewers.


Alright, I'm here now who wants my autograph??

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